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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Middle East Conflict (Read 170268 times)
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Middle East Conflict
Jun 30th, 2006 at 1:39pm
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Since talk of this region is kinda dispersed throughout the forum, heres a thread for anything related to the current troubles in the Middle East.

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=34399

Israel Threatens to Hit Damascus 

Quote:
Israel holds Khaled Mashal, the leader of Hamas' Syrian branch, responsible for the abduction of two Israeli soldiers and wants Syria to expel Palestinian leaders from the country.

Israel threatened to kill Hamas militants based in Damascus.

Al-Jazeera television said Public Security Minister Avi Dichter claimed they knew the locations of HAMAS and Islamic Jihad leaders in Syria and will not hesitate to kill them.



Things are heating up.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #1 - Jun 30th, 2006 at 1:40pm
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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19645805-2703,00.html

Oh and this one too.

Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies

Quote:
ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.

The unprecedented warning was delivered to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in a letter as Israel debated a deal offered by Hamas to free Corporal Gilad Shalit.

It came as Israeli military officials readied a second invasion force for a huge offensive into Gaza.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #2 - Jun 30th, 2006 at 3:11pm
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It started out as a scuffle between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but this is quickly turning into a full scale battle that will include Syria, and - by extension - Russia.  Even though the Palestinians are the whipping boy of the Islamic Middle East, I have no doubt they're all itching for an excuse to get into a fight with Israel.  Iran has no greater desire than to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

I think we're marching quickly toward World War III.  There are just too many stakeholders in the matter and too many events are lining up too quickly.  I'm surprised the US, Britain, and other big countries aren't stepping in to try to slow things down a bit.

Regardless of what ends up happening over there, the world's economic markets are on their toes as it is.  Oil is going to sky rocket if things hit a breaking point.

-b0b
(...thinks we'll feel this one way or another.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #3 - Jun 30th, 2006 at 4:55pm
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http://www.infolive.tv/index.php?chgLang=40
This is a great site for video updates on the situation.  It even shows a few of the Qassam rockets being launched.  Good stuff.  Now for some pictures...





It appears the PA's Interior Ministry has added air conditioning to their headquarters.




us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060630/capt.9f97793881674236937219802242abcc.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl135.jpgx=380&y=232&sig=R9yY5S31V0GAojb.22hPMA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060630/i/r3044970883.jpgx=380&y=248&sig=n_wo9UNV9Mw7cOUkvqM3qw--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060630/capt.sge.mdc52.300606141354.photo00.photo.default-512x341.jpgx=380&y=253&sig=9GIri2_cjkg4mUhWzYp_qw--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060630/capt.6528a32d953849e488394695fb648c79.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl127.jpgx=380&y=252&sig=K8bJTn989bTdZ4W1bGpnTg--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060630/i/r1103675370.jpgx=380&y=247&sig=gHRoG.nHQlTWVZWBbvn7vA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060630/i/r1573711637.jpgx=380&y=253&sig=xysYHA9WpjLOP5lCUSntLg--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060630/i/r1358156916.jpgx=380&y=228&sig=LlMJ34JCUjG4cZM8mRnmSA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060630/i/r385720364.jpgx=380&y=265&sig=2mBrBccRWGh6tjreuHIwKg--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060630/capt.sge.lxz96.300606002717.photo04.photo.default-512x341.jpgx=380&y=253&sig=Zy6GKJ6ktuYOBoTIzU28PQ--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060630/capt.sge.lxz96.300606002717.photo01.photo.default-512x322.jpgx=380&y=238&sig=drzL9eT3hIK3m6BQwta2GA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060629/capt.sge.lxs78.290606224516.photo04.photo.default-512x341.jpgx=380&y=253&sig=SqbgwxPQMqEGKTt9HKVXSg--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060629/i/r3280704512.jpgx=380&y=257&sig=WY.1NNi2pWdvHoLG_VsmsA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060629/capt.9eec6b6eb6a348ec9fc70dadc6e0a4fc.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl150.jpgx=380&y=275&sig=5dDzXZY91VKnPZJ.pr5CIA--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060629/capt.f6e60b82939d41d0b879ebefc262c520.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl149.jpgx=380&y=271&sig=Szt.6xKyPlCK4TO9dNUGTg--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060629/capt.sge.lvk47.290606170059.photo05.photo.default-512x338.jpgx=380&y=250&sig=leGE0S6mtmu_Sl_AohZx5w--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060629/capt.sge.lvk47.290606170059.photo00.photo.default-512x287.jpgx=380&y=212&sig=CPNfJDMMn_q7iG2fMvcVyQ--


us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20060629/2006_06_29t124704_450x302_us_mideast_syria_hamas.jpgx=380&y=254&sig=L00bkSOd4R_sKl8Kx8e58Q--


-b0b
(...loves that mid-launch artillery picture.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #4 - Jun 30th, 2006 at 5:51pm
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Wait...are you telling me that there ISN'T peace in the Middle East?

X
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #5 - Jun 30th, 2006 at 11:35pm
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1EE826C3-F1DE-4527-956F-B00266ED3E0A.htm

Second soldier kidnapped.


Quote:
Palestinian fighters have kidnapped a second Israeli soldier and threatened to kill him unless Israel ends its military offensive in the Palestinian territories, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades announced overnight on Friday.

In a statement received by AFP in Gaza City, the armed group, loosely affiliated to the Fatah movement, called for "the end of the Israeli offensive" and "the lifting of the blockade" in the territories.

"If our demands are not met, the Al-Aqsa Brigades will kill the kidnapped soldier," the statement said, without giving any details.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #6 - Jul 1st, 2006 at 11:35am
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If that soldier dies, his life will be paid for with the blood of a hundred Al Aqsa militants.

-b0b
(...doesn't get it.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #7 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 2:20pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060704/ts_nm/mideast1_dc_2;_ylt=ArddugNUo2ZWnDx12vr...

Quote:
GAZA (Reuters) -
Israel defied a Tuesday deadline set by Gaza militants for the release of Palestinian prisoners and warned Hamas leaders the "sky will fall on them" if an abducted Israeli soldier is harmed.

With Israeli tanks and infantry massing along the
Gaza Strip's northern border, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the campaign launched last week to free Corporal Gilad Shalit could turn into "a long war."


Goodness, does anyone else still believe this abduction was not a setup?
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #8 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 2:35pm
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I hope I don't wind up joining the Military before I plan on it and Involuntarily...that would just suck.

And speaking of Military, there was a guy today of my road race who carried a POW/MIA flag the whole 5 miles of the race.  I hope it made people realize what today is about and how many gave up thier lives earning and protecting not only our freedom, but the freedom of many other countries as well.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #9 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 6:01pm
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MediaMaster wrote on Jul 4th, 2006 at 2:20pm:
Goodness, does anyone else still believe this abduction was not a setup?


The PA has openly admitted to capturing Corporal Shalit.  That fact is undisputed.  If this was a "setup," the PA is just as much responsible for the conspiracy as Israel is.

-b0b
(...sees both sides of the coin.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #10 - Jul 6th, 2006 at 5:10pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_494;_ylt=...

Quote:
Palestinian militants armed with AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades battled Israeli helicopters and tanks Thursday in the bloodiest day since
Israel invaded Gaza over a soldier's capture. At least 20 Palestinians and one Israeli soldier died.


Quote:
"We are doing the utmost effort ... to avoid civilian casualties," said another military official, Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan. "Really, there is no other way of operating against terrorists who are operating inside their own civilian populations."


Maybe thats because its a civilian population standing up against an invasion, regardless of whether or not their government kidnapped a soldier. And of course anyone fighting American or Israeli aggression is a terrorist.

Insanity, pure instanity.

  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #11 - Jul 9th, 2006 at 2:31pm
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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732528.html
Quote:
Israel intends to arrest more senior Hamas figures in addition to the dozens of Palestinian lawmakers and ministers arrested in a predawn raid Thursday, the Justice Ministry said Thursday.

The detention of Hamas parliamentarians in the early hours of Thursday morning had been planned several weeks ago and received approval from Mazuz on Wednesday. The same day, Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin presented Prime Minister Ehud Olmert with the list of Hamas officials slated for detention.


The detention of Hamas parliamentarians in the early hours of Thursday morning had been planned several weeks ago and received approval from Mazuz on Wednesday. The same day, Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin presented Prime Minister Ehud Olmert with the list of Hamas officials slated for detention.

So i guess Isreal had this in mind for a while eh?
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #12 - Jul 9th, 2006 at 4:30pm
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Several weeks?  As in, before the kidnapping of Cpl. Shalit?  I'd love to see some justification for that statement.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #13 - Jul 9th, 2006 at 4:43pm
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yes that article was written on june 30th. Its an Israeli newspaper, I assume they got their info same as the press normally does.

Quote:
An IDF spokeswoman said the arrests were part of an operation against suspected terrorists, and were not "bargaining chips" for the release of abducted IDF soldier Corporal Gilad Shalit.

"They are not bargaining chips for the return of the soldier. It was simply an operation against a terrorist organization," she said. "They will be investigated, brought before a judge to extend their detention and charge sheets will be prepared."


Maybe they timed the arrests they were planning to cooincide with the begining of operations in Gaza
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #14 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 11:31am
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A5A917D4-76E6-46F6-A92B-7250249FD172.htm

Quote:
Israeli troops have entered Lebanon to search for two soldiers captured by Hezbollah fighters during a cross-border raid.

Lieutenant-General Dan Halutz, the Israeli Army Chief of Staff, warned the Lebanese government that Israel would attack its infrastructure and "turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years" if the soldiers were not returned, Israeli TV reported.

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, described the Hezbollah raid as an "act of war" by Lebanon and promised a "very painful and far-reaching response".

The Israeli military carried out air attacks, and used tanks and gunboats in retaliatory strikes. 


This is getting out of hand, things are only going to get worse.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #15 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 1:42am
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The Israeli's just launched an airstrike on the Palestinian foreign ministry, following their strike on Lebanon after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers.  Israel has called up the military reserves.

Lebanon and Israel are both referring to one another's actions as "acts of war."  The Palestinians and their Arab backers are on two sides of Israel, with Hezbollah and their Lebanese and Iranian supporters on another.

This could get messy really, really fast.



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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #16 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 12:43pm
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885988710&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti...

Quote:
Israel has information that Hizbullah guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said.

Regev did not disclose the source of his information.


Man... This is seriously going to erupt into World War III if someone doesnt step in, or I don't even know what. There is too much escalation, and its only a matter of time before Israel takes on Syria too.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #17 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 2:16pm
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The headline news said something about troops being called to Syria but I wasn't paying enough attention to hear who's troops those were.  Honestly, I hope Isreal gets it's ass kicked.  If this many countries are against them, there must be a legitimate reason.

Another option would be to wipe out the entire middle east and then divide it among all countries left standing to make them happy and not attack us for being meanies.  Lips Sealed
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #18 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 2:33pm
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Just wait until Israel and Iran go at it.  That'll be the end of the Middle East as we know it.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #19 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 3:55pm
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I haven't heard of Hezbollah in the past.  If anyone knows about them could you give me a quick background of this group?
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #20 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 4:10pm
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Its an Islamic militant and political group in Lebanon. It was started in the 80's or so to combat Israel's occuupation. They were backed financially and logistically by Syria and Iran, and grew like crazy. They carried out attacks against Israel, but also funded schools, and other social stuff like that, and became a pretty big political party.

After Israel left Lebanon in 2000, they were called upon to disarm by the world. But when the intifada broke out again, they rearmed and now they are doing their thang in Lebenon. Syria and Iran still back them, which is why these attacks carried out by Israel are going to call some major problems if they continue.

  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #21 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 9:26pm
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http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738315.html




Iran warns of 'fierce response' should Israel strike at Syria


Quote:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Thursday an Israeli strike on Syria would be considered an attack on the whole Islamic world that would bring a "fierce response", state television reported.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #22 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 11:29pm
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I hope Israel gets its ass kicked too.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong but for being the "Land of Peace" they are by far the one country in the world that is not afraid to let the shit hit the fan over the smallest of things.   They have a dangerous temper and they are going to get their country wiped out.

Someone needs to put them in their place and tell them to calm the fuck down.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #23 - Jul 14th, 2006 at 12:12am
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my friends and i were just having this discussion this evening.


and when my friends Nassau and Paige (both victims of hippie parents) were yelling about it (and agreeing)--- I just decided I'm sick of the middle-east and their drama. America should just stay out of it---let them fight for long periods of time and then when all sides are weakened---go in, take over and have one sweet ass vacation colony.



no?



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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #24 - Jul 14th, 2006 at 5:34pm
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I was watching Hardball with Chris Mathews and the Syrian ambassador to the U.S. was interviewed.  He said that Isreal is making such a big deal about two soldiers when in reality there are 9,000 captured Palastinians in Isreal.  Its remarkable how different each side views these situations and it makes me think twice about who the real "wrong-doer" is.

I remember when Briney did a breakdown of the U.S. budget and it lead me to wonder how much of that budget is donated to Isreal for weapons and other aid... hmmmm
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #25 - Jul 14th, 2006 at 5:59pm
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Theyve gotten 140 billion from the US since its formationi n 47. And thats reported. So who knows. I saw a similiar interview on CNN. First he interviewed the Israeli ambassador to the US, and he was ever so polite. Then he interviewed the Syrian Ambassador and the interviewer was cutting him off, and putting words in his mouth. It was so nuts. I can only imagine how badly foxnews was spinning it.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #26 - Jul 15th, 2006 at 1:06pm
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3275886,00.html

Quote:
London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat says Israel gave Syria 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity, bring about release of kidnapped IDF troops. ‘Israel will not end military activity until new situation created that will prevent Syria, Iran from using terror organizations to threaten its security,’ newspaper quotes Pentagon official as saying
Roee Nahmias



The London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat reported Saturday that “Washington has information according to which Israel gave Damascus 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity along the Lebanon-Israel border and bring about the release the two kidnapped IDF soldiers or it would launch an offensive with disastrous consequences.”


Quote:
The report said “a senior Pentagon source warned that should the Arab world and international community fail in the efforts to convince
Syria to pressure Hizbullah into releasing the soldiers and halt the current escalation Israel may attack targets in the country.”


If this article is accurate, then we are in some serious trouble here. Cause if Syria is attacked, Iran will be shortly behind. If Israel gets in a pickle, how long will it be before the US becomes involved. Interesting that the US just send 2 carrier groups to the region a month ago.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #27 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 12:29am
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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19806745-1702,00.html


Quote:
THE UN Security Council has again rejected pleas that it call for an immediate cease-fire between Israel and Lebanon after the United States objected, diplomats said overnight.

Washington argued in closed-door talks that the focus for Middle East diplomacy for now should be on the weekend summit in St Petersburg of the Group of Eight industrialised nations, council diplomats said.

It was the sole member of the 15-nation UN body to oppose any council action at all at this time, they said.


Again the US shows its true colors. Whenever there are civil rights violations or violence, the US is quick to condemn.  You bring in Israel, and the US suddenly vetos any resolution that would ever convict Israel.  They shouldnt be immune. If they are going to wage war, they should be held accountable. They arent even talking about the kidnapped soldiers anymore, Israeli officials are saying they wont stop until Hizbullah is disarmed. And I dont think they are just gonna stop with Lebanon.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #28 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 4:02am
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I was just heading to bed and then this happened:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/16/mideast/index.html

Hezbollah rockets kill 8 in Haifa

Yep, thats not going to bode well for tomm.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #29 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 12:13pm
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Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, as is Hamas.  They're responsible for the deaths of countless foreigners, including peace-time soldier assasinations (Col. Will Higgins and Bill Buckley come to mind), diplomat killings (journalists Terry Anderson and John McCarthy), religious envoys (Terry Waite and Brian Keenan), and others.

Have you forgotten about the 1983 bombing of the US embassy in Beirut?  It killed 63.  How about the truck bombing later that same year that killed 241 sleeping marines?  The next year, they bombed the new US embassy and killed 22.  How about the 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847?  How about the Israeli embassy attack in Argentina in '90?  Shall I keep going, or have I made my point?

The US has not and should not stand up for a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.  I don't care how much "good" they've done in their own communities, and I don't care if they call themselves a "political party."  They are cold blooded murderers and Israel has every right to wipe them off the face of the planet.  Personally, I'm glad the United States is backing Israel in destroying Hezbollah.  They're nothing more than a pathetic façade for a group of militant murderers.

-b0b
(...seems to be the lone man out on this one.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #30 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 2:17pm
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The group was only formed in reaction to Israel's illegal occupation of Lebanon. In my eyes they are using unconventional means. I do not agree with how they do it, or who they target, but I guess in your eyes, only Israel has the right to bomb population centers.













Apartment complexes in southern Beirut.

I don't think its fair to justify the annihilation of a group of people without understanding where they are coming from. In my eyes both Hezbullah and Israel have done wrong, I'm just trying to show that Israel is not a shining beacon of light that only does good in the middle east.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #31 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 3:25pm
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Isreal is bombing bridges and civilian airports traping all visitors in Beirut.  I saw a headline that said seven Canadians were killed by Israeli airstrikes.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #32 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 3:39pm
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #33 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 1:33pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060723/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflict_060723141428...

Quote:
As a host of top European diplomats descended on the region,
Syria fueled fears the fighting could spread, issuing a stark warning that it would intervene if
Israel invaded Lebanon.



In other news, Israel is building a massive invasion force on the Lebanese border.

Its really gonna go down like this, its unbelievable.  If Syria and Iran actually follow through with this, Syria, Iran, Israel, and Lebanon will be in a shooting war, and with Iraq in the middle, its only a matter of time we get involved.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #34 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 1:49pm
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http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MIDEAST.TMP

Quote:
Israel's military response by air, land and sea to what it considered a provocation last week by Hezbollah militants is unfolding according to a plan finalized more than a year ago.


So just put a couple troops across the border into Lebanon, get some killed and 2 kidnapped, and then initiate the long planned attack.

Good goin, Israel, hope everything works out swimmingly for you.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #35 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 4:04pm
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I just read an article that said Iran wants to boycott all American products....


WHAT AMERICAN PRODUCTS?!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #36 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 5:08pm
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You've got a point there.

-b0b
(...cigarettes and beer?)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #37 - Aug 1st, 2006 at 3:36pm
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http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/08/01/afx2918966.html
Quote:
'At the 21st day of the Israeli offensive on Lebanon, the health ministry has counted 828 dead, more than 3,200 wounded,' an HRC spokesman who did not wish to be identified said.

'These are identified bodies, and the toll does not count the people still believed to be under the rubble,' he said.

  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #38 - Aug 2nd, 2006 at 9:49pm
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #39 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 12:14am
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It'd be nice to see unbiased coverage of the towns from the Israeli side that've been bombarded by Hezbollah rocket fire for the past couple of years.

-b0b
(...thinks Israel needs to sit the heck down.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #40 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 5:00pm
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It is clear who side Drudge and half of America is on.

No reference to this eh Matt?

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said the war had killed 900 people in Lebanon and wounded 3,000, with a third of the casualties children under 12.

For a nation that abhors any harm to children, the United States better wake the hell up and tell Israel to stop its attacks.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #41 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 5:09pm
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It's no more biased than the video you posted yesterday.  Let's face it, the media is either on Israel's side or Lebanon's side, and nobody is providing fair, unbiased coverage of the matter.

-b0b
(...thinks both sides need to back off, but knows they won't.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #42 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 11:55pm
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Ya I know what you mean man, its really frustrating to see bias in any form Sad

Its interesting that both sides have put forward peace offers that require the other to stop firing 1st, but it doesnt look like either side is going to take the first step any time soon.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #43 - Aug 4th, 2006 at 9:23am
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2006 at 6:13am by MediaMaster »  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #44 - Aug 4th, 2006 at 10:38am
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Anyone can learn about the ways of global politcs by watching elemenary/middle school kids.  You have the bullies, you have the mean people, you have the little guy who wants to be cool and popular, etc.  No matter if the leader is male or female it always seems as if we're concerned with who has the biggest penis.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #45 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 12:25am
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/06/rs.01.html

Quote:
Is civilian casualties increasingly going to be a major media issue? In conflicts where you don't have two standing armies shooting at each other? THOMAS RICKS, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think it will be. But I think civilian casualties are also part of the battlefield play for both sides here. One of the things that is going on, according to some U.S. military analysts, is that Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they're being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon.

KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here?

RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.

KURTZ: That's an extraordinary testament to the notion that having people on your own side killed actually works to your benefit in that nobody wants to see your own citizens killed but it works to your benefit in terms of the battle of perceptions here.


this comes from "military analysts" who could be anyone... so this is not reliable. I posted it cause i was wondering why the heck there are still so many rockets coming down on Israel. Israeli intelligence is always top notch. They can take out a Hamas leader while he drives down a road, but not find large semi-sized launchers? they are mobile, and a whore to keep finding, but the rocket attacks are increasing, not diminishing. Israel has constant drone surveillance, so I am just a bit confused.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #46 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 8:20am
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Many of the rockets being fired are shoulder mounted, not mobile artillery.

-b0b
(...)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #47 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 9:49am
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An Israeli building in Haifa was hit by Hezzbollah rocket fire recently.  Here's the video...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2810053861134883693

-b0b
(...would like to see this video on major news outlets.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #48 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 11:59am
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shoulder mounted rockets that go 20+ kilometers? the Katyusha rockets are mounted on trucks.



And they use this other soviet rocket launcher



  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #49 - Aug 27th, 2006 at 1:25pm
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Defying U.N., Iran opens nuclear reactor By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer


KHONDAB, Iran - Iran's hard-line president on Saturday inaugurated a heavy-water production plant, a facility the West fears will be used to develop a nuclear bomb, as Tehran remained defiant ahead of a U.N. deadline that could lead to sanctions.

The U.N. has called on Tehran to stop the separate process of uranium enrichment — which also can be used to create nuclear weapons — by Thursday or face economic and political sanctions.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared that his nation's nuclear program poses no threat to other nations, even Israel, "which is a definite enemy."

Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Iran would never abandon what he once again called its purely peaceful nuclear program.

"There is no discussion of nuclear weapons," he said. "We are not a threat to anybody even the Zionist regime, which is a definite enemy for the people of the region."

Though the West's main worry has been enrichment of uranium that could be used in a bomb, it also has called on Iran to stop the construction of a heavy-water reactor near the production plant that Ahmadinejad inaugurated.

A senior Israeli lawmaker warned in a statement that the plant inauguration marks "another leap in Iran's advance toward a nuclear bomb."

Israeli legislator Ephraim Sneh of the Labor Party, a partner in the ruling coalition, said that the Jewish state must "prepare itself militarily." Ahmadinejad last year called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

The spent fuel from a heavy-water reactor can be reprocessed to extract plutonium for use in a bomb.

Reactors fueled by enriched uranium use regular — or light — water in the chain reaction that produces energy. Heavy water contains a heavier hydrogen particle, which allow the reactor to run on natural uranium mined by Iran, forgoing the enrichment progress.

Vice President Gholamreza Aghazadeh, who also heads the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, said the heavy-water facility will be used to treat and diagnose AIDS and cancer, and for other medicine and agricultural purposes.
Iran is scheduled to complete the reactor in 2009.

Iran responded Tuesday to package of incentives, presented by the five permanent members of the Security Council plus Germany, for it to halt uranium enrichment and return to negotiations on increasing international oversight of its nuclear program. Tehran said it would be open to negotiations but did not agree to the West's key demand to halt enrichment as a precondition to talks.

The International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, will report on the state of Iran's program by mid-September. If its report finds that enrichment is continuing, the council could move toward sanctions.

Tehran has called the Security Council resolution that set the Thursday deadline "illegal" and has insisted it won't give up its nuclear program.

"They may impose some restrictions on us under pressure. But will they be able to prevent the thoughts of a nation?" Ahmadinejad said Saturday. "Will they be able to prevent the progress and technology to a nation? They have to accept the reality of a powerful, peace-loving and developed Iran. This is in the interest of all governments and all nations whether they like it or not."

Mohammed Saeedi, the deputy head of Iran's atomic organization, called the heavy-water plant "one of the biggest nuclear projects" in the country, state-run television reported.


-b0b
(...thinks Kofi Annan is gonna bust open a whole can of resolutions on Iran.  OH NOS!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #50 - Sep 19th, 2006 at 8:52am
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CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran’s supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff’s remarks on Islam.

Protests broke out in South Asia and Indonesia, with angry Muslims saying Benedict’s statement of regret a day earlier did not go far enough. In southern Iraq, demonstrators carrying black flags burned an effigy of the pope.

Islamic leaders around the world issued more condemnations of the pope’s comments, but some moderates in the Middle East appeared to be trying to put a damper on the outrage, fearing it could spiral into attacks on Christians in the region.

The pontiff said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war. But he stopped short of retracting a speech seen as portraying Islam as a religion tainted by violence.

Benedict said the remarks came from a text that didn’t reflect his own opinion, but he did not retract what he said or say he was sorry he uttered what proved to be explosive words.

Working to defuse situation
The Vatican on Monday sought to defuse the anger, ordering papal representatives around the world to meet with leaders of Muslim countries to explain the pope’s point of view and full context of his speech.

Roman Catholic leaders stepped forward to defend the pontiff. At an Italian bishops conference, Cardinal Camillo Ruini underlined the bishops’ “total closeness and solidarity to the pope” and said they deplored interpretations of the pope’s comments “which attribute to the Holy Father ... errors that he has not committed and aim at attacking his person and his ministry.”

Few in the Islamic world were satisfied by Benedict’s statement of regret.

“The pope’s words have caused a deep wound in the hearts of Muslims that won’t heal for a long time, and then only after a clear apology to Muslims,” Egypt’s religious affairs minister, Mahmoud Hamdi Zaqzouq, wrote in a column in the government daily Al-Ahram on Monday.

An influential Egyptian cleric, Sheik Youssef al-Qaradawi, called for protests after weekly prayers on Friday but maintained they should be peaceful.

Extremists said the pope’s comments proved that the West was in a war against Islam.

Statement from al-Qaida
Al-Qaida in Iraq and its allies issued a statement addressing the pope as “a cross-worshipper” and warning, “You and the West are doomed, as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere.

“You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad (holy war) and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism, when God’s rule is established governing all people and nations,” said the statement by the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of Sunni Arab extremist groups in Iraq.



Another Iraqi extremist group, Ansar al-Sunna, challenged “sleeping Muslims” to prove their manhood by doing something other than “issuing statements or holding demonstrations.”

“If the stupid pig is prancing with his blasphemies in his house,” the group said in a Web statement, referring to the pope, “then let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome.”

In Iran, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei used the comments to call for protests against the United States. He argued that while the pope may have been deceived into making his remarks, the words give the West an “excuse for suppressing Muslims” by depicting them as terrorists.

“Those who benefit from the pope’s comments and drive their own arrogant policies should be targeted with attacks and protests,” he said, referring to the United States.


Recalls cartoon furor
The anger recalled the outrage earlier this year over cartoons depicting the prophet published by a Danish paper. The caricatures, which Muslims saw as insulting Muhammad, set off large, violent protests across the Islamic world.

So far, protests over the pope’s comments have been smaller. However, there has been some violence: Attackers hurled firebombs at seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the weekend, and a nun was shot to death in Somalia.

Some 200 Khamenei loyalists in the Syrian capital, Damascus, held a protest Monday at an Islamic shrine, dismissing the pope’s apology. “The pope’s sorrow was equivocal,” read one banner.


Dozens protested outside the Vatican Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, and schools and shops in the Indian-controlled section of Kashmir shut their doors in protest.

“His comments really hurt Muslims all over the world,” Umar Nawawi of the radical Islamic Defenders’ Front said in Jakarta. “We should remind him not to say such things which can only fuel a holy war.”

Malaysia says apology not enough


Islamic countries also asked the U.N. Human Rights Council to examine the question of religious tolerance. Malaysia’s foreign minister, Syed Hamid Albar, said Benedict’s apology was “inadequate to calm the anger.”

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood said the anger should not be allowed to hurt ties with the Middle East’s Christian minorities. But worries among Christians in the region are high.

Guards have been posted around some churches, and the head of Egypt’s Orthodox Coptic Church, Pope Shenouda III, disassociated himself from Benedict’s statements.

The Dominican mission in Cairo also criticized Benedict’s words, saying he chose a text for his speech that “revived the polemics of the past.”

“These comments, seen by many Muslims as hurtful, risk encouraging extremists on all sides,” it said in a statement, “and put in danger all the advances in dialogue made in recent decades.”

U.S. Muslim group counsels need to ‘move on’
In the United States, however, the leader of the largest U.S. Islamnic advocacy organization called for understanding the pope's error, if not accepting it, and the need to move on.

“The pope has now stated that the quote he used does not reflect his opinions about Islam and Muslims, and we have to take his word for it,” said Ibrahim Hooper, director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based Islamic civil liberies and advocacy organization.

“We want to move on from here and make sure relations aren’t further damaged between Catholics and Muslims worldwide. For many years under the previous pope, relations between Catholics and Muslims were quite strong. We would hate to see anything harm that relationship,” Hooper told MSNBC.com.

The Associated Press and MSNBC.com contributed to this report.



On a mostly-unrelated side note, I wonder how Hugo Chavez's appreciation for Iranian Muslim Clerics is going in heavily Catholic Venezuela now that many Muslims are calling for the Pope to be killed?

Personally, I am growing tired of the muslim sense of "outrage".  I grow even more tired of their expressions of outrage.

What kind of belief system justifies lying in wait for a nun (who dedicated her entire life to helping anyone in Somalia) before shooting her in the back as she walked home to get some sleep?  What kind of religion thinks such an action is a "justified" response to the out-of-context quotation of one German guy?  I don't care what name you slap on that mindset - if someone holds such an opinion, they should do us all a favor and jump off a frickin' cliff.  There are some people the world simply does not need, and let's face it - anyone with that mindset is one of them.

This brings me to another question - where are all of the "mainstream muslims" during all of this?  The media constantly expounds the difference between "mainstream muslims" and "militant muslims," but I never hear regular Joe Blow muslims telling their militant cousins to sit down and shut up.  On the flip side, any time a Christian goes nuts and does something retarded, we're the first in line to distance ourselves from them and explain why they don't represent Christianity.  Heck, we use it as an evangelistic opportunity when we can.  But muslims?  Where's the outrage?

-b0b
(...will probably get in trouble for this.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #51 - Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:47am
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Bob you have to stop stealing my post he he.

Quote:
'm sorry to say but these "peaceful Muslims" that we're told about exist in America and else where need to take a step forward and tell their fellow believers to shut up.  We as Christians, I am speaking for us who consider ourselves Christian, have to defend our faith when some guy with a pipebomb blows up an abortion clinic or says God hates fags and loves dead soldiers.  If these "peaceful Muslims" would just show us that they are out there and care...I think most of us could find the distintion between THOSE Muslims and THESE Muslims.  I'm sorry but I just don't understand how anyone could think this is an apporpriate response to a comment made by someone of another religion.  - From Pictures And Vieo Thread


I also talked about the "where's the cry from the good Muslims".

Well here's one...http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060919.@01&irec=0 .  But where are America's Muslims?

I was also think about that poor nun.  I wonder what would happen if that nun was Mother Teresa, alive of course.  Do you think that the entire world would be outraged?  I know I would be and I'm not even Catholic anymore.  She was almost as popular, if not more, than the Pople himself.  If this nun had been as famous as her...I'd be more afraid for Muslims, esp those here in the US.  Yet since it's "just a nun" we go "Ha ha those CRAZY Muslims" and continue to just get reemed in the butt by them.  This is a reason why I would never become a Muslim.  They claim a religion of peace and the quest for god.  Yet violence, the call for violence, bloodshed, and just negative images are shown.  At least with Christians, you see...going to Africa to help combat the UN and actually help to treat dying Africans without tainted "vaccines, you see them get arrested in China for spreading their belief.  Remember, I think it was in Afganistan, I may be wrong there.  But a man converted from Islam to Christianity...and they wanted to kill him!  Like hold a trial and legally kill him.  What happens when it's vice versa for Christians?  Well they are either prayed about, shunned (although I hope not as much), and they are reasoned with.  However, we're not Satanists who kill people who leave their belief system...and that's the kind of behavior I see from Muslims.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #52 - Oct 21st, 2006 at 5:07pm
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http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2547.htm#001

Quote:
Late on the evening of October 10, 2006, Iraqi resistance groups lobbed mortar and rocket rounds into the immense ‘Forward Base Falcon,’ the largest American military base in Iraq, located 13 km south of the Green Zone in Baghdad. In addition to accurate mortar fire, Grad and Katyusha rockets were also used.

Falcon base was designed to house a large contingent of American troops, mostly drawn from the 4th Infantry Division, stationed at Fr. Bliss, Texas. At the time of the attack, there were approximately 3000 men inside the camp, which also was filled with ammunition supplies, fuel, tanks and vehicles.

When the flames had been brought under control on the morning of the 11th  of October, primarily because the entire camp had been gutted, nine large American military transports with prominent Red Cross markings were observed by members of the foreign media taking off, laded with the dead and the wounded.



Over 300 American troops, including U.S. Army and Marines, CIA agents and U.S. translators were casualties and there also were 165 seriously injured requiring major medical attention and 39 suffering lesser injuries  122 members of the Iraqi armed forces were killed and 90 seriously injured members of same, were also evacuated to the U.S. military hospital at al-Habbaniyah located some 70km west of Baghdad.

Satellite pictures and aerial photographs from neutral sources showed that Camp Falcon suffered major structural damage and almost all the U.S. military’s supply of small arms ammunition, artillery and rocket rounds, tons of fuel, six Apache helicopters, an uncounted but large number of soft-skinned vehicles such as Humvees and supply trucks were damaged or totally destroyed. Foreign press observers noted “an endless parade” of military vehicle recovery units dragging burnt-out heavy tanks and armored personnel carriers to another base outside Baghdad.

Many of the walls and towers of the camp were damaged or leveled as were many of  the barracks, maintenance depots, and there was considerable damage to the huge mess halls that could hold 3000 soldiers, the huge recreation center with its basketball courts and indoor swimming pools and all the administration buildings





If this is accurate, and who even knows, this is terrible and the fact it is not reported scares me. I'm looking for more info on this.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #53 - Oct 23rd, 2006 at 8:40am
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The only people reporting it are questionable indy media outlets.  I'd like to see some pictures.

-b0b
(...wonders if Google Earth would be updated?)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #54 - Oct 23rd, 2006 at 9:54am
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If only Google earth was all hi res and kept up to date, we could check on alot of things...

someday maybe
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #55 - Oct 25th, 2006 at 3:18pm
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Oct 25, 2006 — BERLIN (Reuters) - Two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast, the Defense Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday without giving further details.

Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier on Wednesday quoted a junior German defense minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots.

The jets also released infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying.

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and radical Lebanese-based Islamic group Hezbollah.



UNFIL has recently threatened to shoot down IDF jets over Lebanon. The IDF says it will continue to do recon until UNFIL stops the Syrian/Iranian arms smuggling that the IDF is observing ($5 says UNFIL wants the recon to stop so they can avoid criticism of not stopping the smuggling).


I'll bet a day's pay that this was the first step in that. The IDF was probably doing a recon over Hezbollah controlled areas. The German ship illuminates them with a radar, maybe even fire control, to let the IDF know that the vaunted UN doesn't approve. The IDF jets make a low pass at the German ship to let the UN know that they don't appreciate the UN's utter suckage. I also bet that the IDF just made a high speed pass and fired nothing. "Two shots" from "two jets" that carry a vulcan cannon sounds like "sonic boom from two jets" to me.

-b0b
(...could be wrong, of course.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #56 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 10:16pm
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Peretz: Israel didn't fire at German ship

Defense Minister Amir Peretz denies report that two IAF jets fired shots towards German vessel off shores of Lebanon. Peretz speaks with his German counterpart, guarantees him Israel will not attack country's ships

Efrat Weiss
Latest Update:      10.25.06, 20:05

Defense Minister Amir Peretz stated Wednesday that that reports that IAF jets had fired shots at a German ship were completely untrue. According to a report, which was initially confirmed by the Defense Ministry in Berlin, two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast.

Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a junior German Defense Ministry official as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots.

The official did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added.

However, shortly after the report was published Peretz spoke with the German defense secretary, Franz Josef Jung, and stressed before him that Israel was not involved in any shooting towards a German vessel, and that there was no intention to carry out such attacks in the future.

Peretz also emphasized the need to enhance cooperation directly vis-à-vis UNIFIL. The two ministers agreed to meet again next week.

The IDF has also stated that contrary to reports, the IAF did not strike any German ship.

Military sources explained that the report was released by the news agencies after Israeli warplanes identified a German ship and a German helicopter off the shores of Rosh Hanikra, and were sent in their direction. The jets were ordered to return shortly after, and while still in Israeli airspace. No shooting towards the vessel had occurred.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and radical Lebanese-based Islamic group Hizbullah.


Now is this the true story or is the original?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #57 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 9:52pm
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So much for the German Chancellor saying that she didnt want German soldiers in a position that may have Israeli soldiers fighting German soldiers.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #58 - Nov 1st, 2006 at 11:37am
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E974E7AF-BC99-4543-93FB-9A2DB5EBF417.htm

Quote:
Safavi also told state TV that the Iranian exercises would be used to test fire ballistic missiles.

"Missiles Shahab-2 and Shahab-3 with cluster warheads and a range of over 1,000km will be shot as well as hundreds of rockets and other missiles such as Fateh and Zolfaghar," he said


There is a couple carrier battlegroups in the Persian Gulf right now, near the Straight of Hormuz. It would be interesting if a "stray Iranian missile" were to hit one of our ships, sending us into war, just before the election!
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #59 - Nov 4th, 2006 at 8:45am
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Six Arab states join rush to go nuclear
Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, UAE and Saudi Arabia seek atom technology
By Richard Beeston, Diplomatic Editor


THE SPECTRE of a nuclear race in the Middle East was raised yesterday when six Arab states announced that they were embarking on programmes to master atomic technology.
The move, which follows the failure by the West to curb Iran’s controversial nuclear programme, could see a rapid spread of nuclear reactors in one of the world’s most unstable regions, stretching from the Gulf to the Levant and into North Africa.



The countries involved were named by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as Algeria, Egypt, Morocco and Saudi Arabia. Tunisia and the UAE have also shown interest.

All want to build civilian nuclear energy programmes, as they are permitted to under international law. But the sudden rush to nuclear power has raised suspicions that the real intention is to acquire nuclear technology which could be used for the first Arab atomic bomb.

“Some Middle East states, including Egypt, Morocco, Algeria and Saudi Arabia, have shown initial interest [in using] nuclear power primarily for desalination purposes,” Tomihiro Taniguch, the deputy director-general of the IAEA, told the business weekly Middle East Economic Digest. He said that they had held preliminary discussions with the governments and that the IAEA’s technical advisory programme would be offered to them to help with studies into creating power plants.

Mark Fitzpatrick, an expert on nuclear proliferation at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said that it was clear that the sudden drive for nuclear expertise was to provide the Arabs with a “security hedge”.

“If Iran was not on the path to a nuclear weapons capability you would probably not see this sudden rush [in the Arab world],” he said.

The announcement by the six nations is a stunning reversal of policy in the Arab world, which had until recently been pressing for a nuclear free Middle East, where only Israel has nuclear weapons.

Egypt and other North African states can argue with some justification that they need cheap, safe energy for their expanding economies and growing populations at a time of high oil prices.

The case will be much harder for Saudi Arabia, which sits on the world’s largest oil reserves. Earlier this year Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Foreign Minister, told The Times that his country opposed the spread of nuclear power and weapons in the Arab world.

Since then, however, the Iranians have accelerated their nuclear power and enrichment programmes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2436948,00.html



I predict a lot of SPF 5,000,000 sunblock is going to be needed in that region in the not too distant future…



-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #60 - Nov 14th, 2006 at 9:02am
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Whenever I start to get a bit weary of Israel's hardline policy, some piece of news comes along to erase that.  Apparently, Hamas has refused to recognize Israel as a sovereign state. 

There simply is no other way to survive when your neighbors don't even recognize your right to live.  A major regional war is brewing over there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061114/ts_nm/mideast_dc_138

-b0b
(...would bet on it.)

  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #61 - Nov 19th, 2006 at 4:02pm
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Quote:
Saturday, November 11, 2006
Israel to produce synthetic oil from low quality shale at $17 a barrel

Analysis: Israel sees shale replacing oil
By LEAH KRAUSS UPI Energy Correspondent
www.upi.com/Energy/view.php?StoryID=20061107-070924-5161r
HAIFA, Israel, Nov. 7 (UPI) -- The Israeli process for producing energy from
oil shale will cut its oil imports by one-third, and will serve as a guide
for other countries with oil shale deposits, according to one company.

A.F.S.K. Hom Tov presented its oil shale processing method on Tuesday,
outside Haifa and just down the street from one of the country's two oil
refinery facilities.

"Because the patents for this process belong to (the company), Israel is the
most advanced in the world in the effort to create energy from oil shale,"
Moshe Shahal, a Hom Tov legal representative and a former Israeli energy
minister, told United Press International.

Shahal estimated that the company's Negev Desert facility would begin
full-scale production in three to four years, while other countries with oil
shale deposits will need five to six years to reach production.

Oil shale is limestone rock that contains hydrocarbons, or fossil fuels --
about 20 percent of the amount of energy found in coal. Using the rock as a
raw material and coating it with bitumen, a residue of the crude oil
refining process, the company can produce natural gas, fuel, electricity, or
a combination of the three.

Older technologies squeezed the hydrocarbon material out of the rock, with
extremely high pressure and at high temperatures.
According to Professor Ze'ev Aizenshtat, an oil shale expert, the Hom Tov
process is more environmentally friendly than other /methods of converting
oil shale into energy. It also allows for more flexibility in the kind of
fuel produced, produces less waste and operates at lower temperatures than
other methods.

Though the production process may be more environmentally friendly, the end
product is still a fossil fuel, similar in quality to a high-grade diesel
when in liquid form.

Israel's shale is low-quality, however -- its "caloric value" is only about
15 percent, while shale in other countries yields 20 percent, according to a
report in BusinessWeek earlier this year. As a result, more Israeli shale is
needed to produce the same amount of fuel.

Hom Tov isn't worried, however. "This is a much lighter (substance) than
what gradually comes out of an oil field," Aizenshtat told UPI, as Hom Tov
company owners Israel Feldman and Shimon Kazansky posed for photographs with
their fingers dipped in a plastic pitcher of the stuff.

Because fewer refining processes are necessary with oil shale than with
crude oil, the final product is a higher quality fuel at a lower price,
Aizenshtat said.

The company estimates it will consume 6 million tons of oil shale and 2
million tons of refinery waste each year, for an annual production of 3
million tons of product.

It would cost about $17 to produce a barrel of synthetic oil at the Hom Tov
facility, meaning giant profit margins in a world of $45 to $60 per barrel
crude. Yearly earnings are forecasted to be between $159 million and $350
million, Shahal said.

Israel has 15 billion tons of oil shale reserves. Jordan, on the other hand,
has about 25 billion tons, and the oil shale in Jordan is of higher quality.
Shahal met with Jordanian Energy Minister Azmi Khreisat earlier this year,
to discuss setting up a plant there.

The United States also has a giant reserve, mostly in Colorado, and Hom Tov
sees potential for its patented process there.

The process, which Feldman and Kazansky developed in the mid-1990s, has
lately attracted some high-powered investors, including Ofer Glazer -- the
third husband of Israel's richest resident, billionaire Carnival Cruise
heiress Shari Arison.

"It's a kind of dream" to invest in Hom Tov, Glazer told UPI. "It's the type
of investment where Israel needs the product, and it creates jobs."

Glazer added that it will be good for Israel not to be dependent on
"external sources" for its energy needs, saying that "those countries aren't
exactly friendly (to Israel.)"

As for his stake in the project, Glazer said he preferred "not to get into
numbers."

www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=31531




I'm counting down the days until the Palestinians try to blow this place to smithereens...

If this comes to fruition, Israel will succeed in relegating the Arab world back to pre-20th century insignificance.

-b0b
(...will be watching this one closely.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #62 - Nov 21st, 2006 at 9:02am
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Quote:
Message found; teacher quits
'Destroy America' embedded in puzzle
Published: Nov 21, 2006 12:30 AM
Modified: Nov 21, 2006 02:33 AM


Marti Maguire, Staff Writer
A message embedded in a Spanish assignment that included the words "destroy America" has led a teacher to resign and sparked concerns among parents at a Johnston County high school.

Students said former Smithfield-Selma High Spanish teacher Khalid Chahhou gave them an extra-credit "word search" Thursday that required them to translate vocabulary words and find them in a grid of letters.

They started seeing other words such as "destroy" and "terrorist" and eventually put together a few sentences that decry violence against Palestinians and appear to condemn the United States for its involvement in the conflict.

Students alerted the school administration, which confronted Chahhou. Chahhou resigned from the district late Thursday. When reached by phone Monday, he confirmed this account but refused to comment further on the incident.

"I don't want to talk about this dark page in my life any more," Chahhou said.

Sophomore Chris McDaniels said the word search caught his attention because it was handwritten; they were usually typed.

"I think some of the people in the class were kind of afraid, because how the world is today, you never know with people," McDaniels said. "Even if you've known them for a while, they could turn out to be someone completely different."

Shakil Ahmed, president of the Islamic Association of Cary, said Chahhou told him he had made the puzzle when he was upset after seeing news reports of deaths of Palestinians at the hands of Israeli troops.

"He must have gone through an outburst of emotions at that time," said Ahmed.

Ahmed said the act was out of character for the mild-mannered Chahhou, who has taught Arabic and religious studies to children at the mosque of about 200 members since he moved to the area five months ago.

"He's the most softest-spoken, most gentle, kindest person I've come across," said Ahmed, adding that Chahhou was embarrassed by his actions.

But Carla McDaniels, Chris' mother, was one of several parents who wondered how someone with what they see as extremist tendencies ended up teaching at a public school, where he could impose his views on children.

"With him resigning, who's to say he's not going to go to another school district to do the same thing?" Carla McDaniels asked.

She also said she wants to see Chahhou face criminal charges. The school district notified authorities of the incident, but no charges were filed.

A native of Morrocco, Chahhou moved to North Carolina from New York. Ahmed said that Chahhou was working on a doctorate in Spanish in addition to his teaching job.

Johnston officials wouldn't comment on their hiring practices. But Steve Scroggs, who oversees hiring for the Chapel Hill-Carrboro school district, said that districts can't discriminate against teachers for their political or religious affiliations.

"You simply can't ask someone's political ideology during an interview, any more than you can ask them their religion, or any more than you can ask them other personal information," Scroggs said.

WHAT THE STUDENTS FOUND

Here is the paragraph that students found in a word search created by their Spanish teacher at Smithfield-Selma High School:

"Sharon killed a lot of innocent people in Palestine. Hamas is not a terrorist group. They have the right to defend their country. This is something that forms part of our freedom and dignity. Allah help destroy this body of evil that is making human life so miserable. Destroy America, a country where evil is sponsored."


-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #63 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 3:12pm
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Check out Rumsfeld's parting memo on the Iraq question...

Quote:
Nov. 6, 2006

SUBJECT: Iraq — Illustrative New Courses of Action

The situation in Iraq has been evolving, and U.S. forces have adjusted, over time, from major combat operations to counterterrorism, to counterinsurgency, to dealing with death squads and sectarian violence. In my view it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough. Following is a range of options:


ILLUSTRATIVE OPTIONS

Above the Line: (Many of these options could and, in a number of cases, should be done in combination with others)

Publicly announce a set of benchmarks agreed to by the Iraqi Government and the U.S. — political, economic and security goals — to chart a path ahead for the Iraqi government and Iraqi people (to get them moving) and for the U.S. public (to reassure them that progress can and is being made).

Significantly increase U.S. trainers and embeds, and transfer more U.S. equipment to Iraqi Security forces (ISF), to further accelerate their capabilities by refocusing the assignment of some significant portion of the U.S. troops currently in Iraq.

Initiate a reverse embeds program, like the Korean Katusas, by putting one or more Iraqi soldiers with every U.S. and possibly Coalition squad, to improve our units’ language capabilities and cultural awareness and to give the Iraqis experience and training with professional U.S. troops.

Aggressively beef up the Iraqi MOD and MOI, and other Iraqi ministries critical to the success of the ISF — the Iraqi Ministries of Finance, Planning, Health, Criminal Justice, Prisons, etc. — by reaching out to U.S. military retirees and Reserve/National Guard volunteers (i.e., give up on trying to get other USG Departments to do it.)

Conduct an accelerated draw-down of U.S. bases. We have already reduced from 110 to 55 bases. Plan to get down to 10 to 15 bases by April 2007, and to 5 bases by July 2007.

Retain high-end SOF capability and necessary support structure to target Al Qaeda, death squads, and Iranians in Iraq, while drawing down all other Coalition forces, except those necessary to provide certain key enablers for the ISF.

Initiate an approach where U.S. forces provide security only for those provinces or cities that openly request U.S. help and that actively cooperate, with the stipulation being that unless they cooperate fully, U.S. forces would leave their province.

Stop rewarding bad behavior, as was done in Fallujah when they pushed in reconstruction funds, and start rewarding good behavior. Put our reconstruction efforts in those parts of Iraq that are behaving, and invest and create havens of opportunity to reward them for their good behavior. As the old saying goes, “If you want more of something, reward it; if you want less of something, penalize it.” No more reconstruction assistance in areas where there is violence.

Position substantial U.S. forces near the Iranian and Syrian borders to reduce infiltration and, importantly, reduce Iranian influence on the Iraqi Government.

Withdraw U.S. forces from vulnerable positions — cities, patrolling, etc. — and move U.S. forces to a Quick Reaction Force (QRF) status, operating from within Iraq and Kuwait, to be available when Iraqi security forces need assistance.

Begin modest withdrawals of U.S. and Coalition forces (start “taking our hand off the bicycle seat”), so Iraqis know they have to pull up their socks, step up and take responsibility for their country.

Provide money to key political and religious leaders (as Saddam Hussein did), to get them to help us get through this difficult period.

Initiate a massive program for unemployed youth. It would have to be run by U.S. forces, since no other organization could do it.

Announce that whatever new approach the U.S. decides on, the U.S. is doing so on a trial basis. This will give us the ability to readjust and move to another course, if necessary, and therefore not “lose.”

Recast the U.S. military mission and the U.S. goals (how we talk about them) — go minimalist.

Below the Line (less attractive options):

Continue on the current path.

Move a large fraction of all U.S. Forces into Baghdad to attempt to control it.

Increase Brigade Combat Teams and U.S. forces in Iraq substantially.

Set a firm withdrawal date to leave. Declare that with Saddam gone and Iraq a sovereign nation, the Iraqi people can govern themselves. Tell Iran and Syria to stay out.

Assist in accelerating an aggressive federalism plan, moving towards three separate states — Sunni, Shia, and Kurd.

Try a Dayton-like process.



I thought it was an interesting memo, especially this part...

Quote:
Assist in accelerating an aggressive federalism plan, moving towards three separate states — Sunni, Shia, and Kurd.


Emphasis mine.  It's quite an intriguing suggestion.  I have a feeling the Sunni's would balk at such a solution, especially considering their numbers, but it's a progressive solution nonetheless.

I have to say, though, that Rumsfeld's memo was about as clear as mud.  It reads like a laundry list of every conceivable option so Rummy can say "told you so" no matter what happens.  Good riddance.

-b0b
(...is enjoying some smooth, creamy hot chocolate.)

  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #64 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 5:00pm
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That has been PNAC's plan since day one.  You can read that in their documents.  You have to give them credit for being able to carry out plans...even diabolical ones!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #65 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 2:13pm
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Quote:
Thousands flee as war escalates in Somalia
POSTED: 9:54 a.m. EST, December 22, 2006

MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Ethiopian attack helicopters and tanks headed for battle Friday as fighting raged for a fourth day between Somalia's Islamic militia and the country's secular government, witnesses and a government official said.

Tens of thousands of Somalis fled their homes as the Ethiopian-backed government used artillery to push back Islamic fighters who had advanced on the regime's only stronghold, Baidoa. Islamic forces who have declared they want to bring the whole country under Quranic rule said the latest fighting had been started by the government but now they would launch their own attacks.

Sheik Ibrahim Shukri Abuu-Zeynab, a spokesman for the Islamic movement, told reporters in the capital, Mogadishu, that the fighting so far was just a taste of what was to come.

"We will now start our real attack against the invaders and would not stop until we force the Ethiopians out of our country," he said. (Watch as Islamists swear to kick out Ethiopian "invaders")

Residents in Baidoa reported seeing hundreds of government troops and trucks being moved toward the front lines early Friday, following a night of heavy artillery and mortar fire.

Four attack helicopters were seen by residents headed toward the eastern front, outside the garrison town. A government official confirmed the deployment on condition of anonymity because it related to security issues.

Somalia could be battleground for Eritrea vs. Ethiopia
The increasingly violent clashes and deployment of attack helicopters could mean a major conflict in this volatile region. Ethiopia, which has one of the largest armies in the region, and its bitter rival, Eritrea, could use Somalia as the ground for a proxy war. While Ethiopia backs the government, Eritrea backs the Islamic movement.

One government parliamentarian in Baidoa said he feared it will fall to the Islamic group. "More well-armed Ethiopians are pouring in here minute after minute and thousands of Islamic fighters are heading here to force them and the government out," he said on condition of anonymity because he feared reprisals.

Families abandon livestock, homes; bodies in streets
Bodies lay in the streets of villages where attacks had taken place Thursday night, and families began to abandon their homes, crops and livestock, fearing worsening fighting. Hundreds of people in areas held by the Islamic forces also were fleeing south to Mogadishu.

"I think we have lost hundreds of our animals in the fighting, most of them were caught in the crossfire," said Malable Aden, who reached Mogadishu by car. "We were supposed to reap our harvest of this season, but unfortunately we were forced to leave them behind for the pigs and birds to destroy them."

The leader of the Council of Islamic Courts said Thursday that Somalia was in "a state of war" and called on all Somalis to fight Ethiopian forces in the country. Ethiopia denies its forces are fighting, but says it has deployed several hundred military trainers in support of Somalia's U.N.-backed transitional government.

"They (the Islamic group) are claiming that Ethiopia is fighting against them and this is totally false," said government spokesman Zemedkun Teckle. "If the time comes that we have to fight, it will be very clear to everyone and there will be no doubt because we will announce this to our people."

No effective government in Somalia for 15 years
The United Nations has appealed for calm, saying fighting would prevent aid from reaching hundreds of thousands in dire need of help because of hunger and flooding.

Somalia has not had an effective government since 1991. The country's secular interim government, set up in 2004 and backed by the U.N., has rejected religious rule. Muslim leaders have insisted on an Islamic government.

Somalia's internationally recognized central government holds only a small area around the central town of Baidoa, about 140 miles northwest of the capital of Mogadishu. The Islamic militiamen, meanwhile, control Mogadishu along with most of southern Somalia.

www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/22/somalia.ap/index.html


It's on.  Christians versus Muslims in the world series of love!  From a purely military standpoint, the Muslims are poised for a huge coup.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #66 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 2:27pm
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MOGADISHU, Somalia - Ethiopian jets bombed Somalia's two main airports Monday while ground troops captured three villages and a strategic border town, lending Somalia's internationally backed government crucial military aid in its struggle against a powerful Islamic militia. Russian-made jets swept low over the capital at midmorning, dropping two bombs on Mogadishu International Airport, part of a major escalation in the week-old fighting. The leader of the Islamic militia, Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, flew into the airport shortly after the attack; it was not clear if he was an intended target.


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #67 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 2:43pm
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Ethiopia – The Roaring Lion of Judah!

Ethiopia is one of the world’s oldest Judeo-Christian civilizations on the face of the planet.


Of course, it just so happens to be surrounded by two of the world’s most psychotic radical Muslim hellholes – Sudan and Somalia.


Ethiopia is known in the Bible as the Land of the Queen of Sheba, shown above with King Solomon.


And once ruled by the legendary Haile Selassie, believed to be the descendant of  Solomon.


Many believe that the Ark of the Covenant is held in Ethiopia.

How does this wrap into your end-time theories, Stewie?

-b0b
(...will look into it more tomorrow night.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #68 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 2:44pm
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Looks like Ethiopia has got them on the run.

www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/26/somalia.ap/index.html

Quote:
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Islamic fighters retreated Tuesday as Somali government and Ethiopian troops advanced on three fronts in a decisive turn in the battle for control of this Horn of Africa nation.


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6209643.stm

Quote:
Somalia's Islamist militia are reported to have withdrawn from frontlines after a sustained assault by government forces backed by Ethiopian troops.

Ethiopian jets fired at Islamist positions for a third day on Tuesday.

The Union of Islamic Courts described its pullout as a change of tactics in what it vowed would be a long war.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #69 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 9:19pm
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061226/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_somalia

Quote:
WASHINGTON - The State Department signaled support Tuesday for Ethiopian military operations against Somalia, noting that Ethiopia has had "genuine security concerns" stemming from the rise of Islamist forces in its eastern neighbor.
  

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Reply #70 - Dec 26th, 2006 at 9:57pm
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Wow, that didn't take long, huh?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #71 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 8:30am
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Breaking: Bad noose for Saddam!  (Get it?  Ha!)  Saddam will be hung within 36 hours, so sayeth MSNBC.  I'll post an article when I find one.



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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #72 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 8:39am
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Quote:
NBC: Saddam to be hanged by Sunday

Ex-dictator’s execution expected to be carried out by start of Eid holiday


NBC NEWS EXCLUSIVE

Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, sentenced to death for his role in 148 killings in 1982, will have his sentence carried out by Sunday, NBC News reported Thursday. According to a U.S. military officer who spoke on condition of anonymity, Saddam will be hanged before the start of the Eid religious holiday, which begins that Sunday.

Earlier Thursday, Saddam’s chief lawyer implored world leaders to prevent the United States from handing over the ousted leader to Iraqi authorities for execution, saying the former dictator should enjoy protection from his enemies as a "prisoner of war."



Captured by 3d Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, at one of Saddam's Baghdad palaces. The caption at the bottom of the mural says "The Right Honorable, Mr. President, Leader, Holy Warrior Saddam Hussein (may God protect him)." The badge between Mr. Hussein and the WTC at the middle and top of the mural says; "Allah protect Iraq and Saddam."


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #73 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 1:03pm
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Breaking:  Saddam was handed over to Iraqi authorities for execution.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/29/hussein/index.html


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #74 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 7:41pm
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Saddam will hang between 930 and 10pm ET.

Pray for him, hopefully he can to come to know Christ before the end.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #75 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 10:32pm
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It's done then. I hope that video footage of the execution stays hidden.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #76 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 2:59pm
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I thought we were ticked off at Bin Ladden's group going after our embassies...I guess it's our turn now!

Quote:
US north Iraqi raid angers Iran
Iraq map
US forces have stormed a building in the northern Iraqi town of Irbil and seized six people said to be Iranians, prompting a diplomatic incident.

Iranian and Iraqi officials said the building was an Iranian consulate and the detainees its employees.

The US military said it was still investigating, but that the building did not have diplomatic status.

The troops raided the building at about 0300 (0001GMT), taking away computers and papers, according to local media.

AFP news agency quoted Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman as saying he did not know the nationality of the six but said they were "suspected of being closely tied to activities targeting Iraq and coalition forces".

"I can confirm for you through our forces there that this is not a consulate or a government building," he said.

However, Tehran said the attack violated all international conventions. It has summoned ambassadors from Switzerland, representing US interests, and Iraq.

A spokesman for Iran's foreign ministry described the raid as an attempt to sabotage Tehran's relations with Iraq. One Iranian MP said it showed America's cruelty and meanness.

The raid comes amid high Iran-US tension.

In a major speech on Wednesday, President George W Bush said the US would take a tough stance towards Iran and Syria, whom he accused of destabilising Iraq.

The US also accuses Iran of seeking nuclear arms. Iran denies both charges.

Tehran counters that US military involvement in the Middle East endangers the whole region.

Pressure

A local TV station said Kurdish security forces had taken over the building after the Americans had left.

Irbil lies in Iraq's Kurdish-controlled north, about 350km (220 miles) from the capital Baghdad. Reports say the Iranian consulate there was set up last year under an agreement with the Kurdish regional government to facilitate cross-border visits.

Woman injured in Samarra bombing
Dozens of casualties resulted from a truck bombing in Samarra

One Iranian news agency with a correspondent in Irbil says five US helicopters were used to land troops on the roof of the Iranian consulate.

It reports that a number of vehicles cordoned off the streets around the building, while US soldiers warned the occupants in three different languages that they should surrender or be killed.

In December, US troops detained a number of Iranians in Iraq, including two with diplomatic immunity who were later released.

Thursday's raid came as US President George W Bush unveiled his new strategy in Iraq, which included increasing troop numbers and a commitment to stop Iranian support for "our enemies in Iraq".

BBC Diplomatic Correspondent Jonathan Marcus says the raid could signal a ratcheting-up of pressure on the Iranians, in line with the rhetorical thrust of his speech.

Meanwhile in the Iraqi capital, the five off-duty policemen were killed in an ambush in the western al-Khadra neighbourhood, hospital officials said

Security sources said another man was killed wounded in an attack on a money changer in downtown Baghdad.

In the restive Anbar province, the US military said that one of its troops was killed on Tuesday by a roadside bombing.

Other violence was reported in Mosul, where gunmen killed a professor driving home from work, and Samarra where a suicide truck bomber attacked the mayor's house, killing three people and wounding 33, including the mayor.


Oh crap...oh crap...oh crap....oh crap...

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #77 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 10:22pm
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Iran can suck it.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #78 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 2:30pm
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http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=38646

Quote:
“We haven’t seen any al-Qaeda members killed but what we can confirm is that a lot of innocent civilians have been killed by the American warplanes,” he told AFP. “They hit civilian sites and forests where nomads keep animals.”

Dirir Moalim Hussein, a herder, said his wife and two other members of his family were killed as they tried to flee the attacks on their village of Bulo Haji between Dhobley and Afmadow.

“We are really scared,” he said. “We heard bombing and heavy explosions over our village, it was dark and no one could see well. I ran with two children, I don’t know in what direction, but three of my family were killed, including my wife.”

“I have nothing right now,” Hussein said. “I have lost everything, they have bombed my cows and goats, we don’t know what crime we committed and we have been punished for no reason,” Hussein said.

The US has confirmed hitting at least one suspected al-Qaeda position in southern Somalia on Monday but declined to comment on reports of airborne attacks on Tuesday and Wednesday reported by locals.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #79 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 2:48pm
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Kill one terrorist and take out 100 civis...sounds like a good average for our government.

terrorism - violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups (US government) in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands (stop threatening to attack us).

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #80 - Jan 12th, 2007 at 3:21pm
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yea its ok cause they are the "other"

we don't know them, we don't care about their culture, our way is right.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #81 - Jan 15th, 2007 at 7:45pm
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=AL-20070115&arti...
Quote:
Washington will launch a military strike on Iran before April 2007, say sources. The attack will be launched from the sea and Patriot missiles will guard all oil-producing countries in the region, they add. Recent statements emanating from the United States indicate the Bush administration's new strategy for Iraq doesn't include any proposal to make a compromise or negotiate with Syria or Iran. A reliable source said President Bush recently held a meeting with Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Secretary of State Dr Condoleezza Rice and other assistants in the White House where they discussed the plan to attack Iran in minute detail.


Quote:
He went on to say "although US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Dr Condoleezza Rice suggested postponing the attack, President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney insisted on attacking Tehran without any negotiations based on the lesson they learnt in Iraq recently." The Bush administration believes attacking Iran will create a new power balance in the region, calm down the situation in Iraq and pave the way for their democratic project, which had to be suspended due to the interference of Tehran and Damascus in Iraq, he continued. The attack on Iran will weaken the Syrian regime, which will eventually fade away, the source said.



Obviously take this with a grain of salt... who even know who the source is... but secondly, it's something to think about eh?
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #82 - Jan 16th, 2007 at 12:24pm
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I know I should be mad...but hey...isn't this truly the American way?!

Quote:
AP: Iran gets army gear in Pentagon sale

By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer Tue Jan 16, 7:57 AM ET

WASHINGTON - The U.S. military has sold forbidden equipment at least a half-dozen times to middlemen for countries — including
Iran and China — who exploited security flaws in the Defense Department's surplus auctions. The sales include fighter jet parts and missile components.
ADVERTISEMENT

In one case, federal investigators said, the contraband made it to Iran, a country
President Bush branded part of an "axis of evil."

In that instance, a Pakistani arms broker convicted of exporting U.S. missile parts to Iran resumed business after his release from prison. He purchased Chinook helicopter engine parts for Iran from a U.S. company that had bought them in a
Pentagon surplus sale. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, speaking on condition of anonymity, say those parts made it to Iran.

The surplus sales can operate like a supermarket for arms dealers.

"Right Item, Right Time, Right Place, Right Price, Every Time. Best Value Solutions for America's Warfighters," the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service says on its Web site, calling itself "the place to obtain original U.S. Government surplus property."

Federal investigators are increasingly anxious that Iran is within easy reach of a top priority on its shopping list: parts for the precious fleet of F-14 "Tomcat" fighter jets the United States let Iran buy in the 1970s when it was an ally.

In one case, convicted middlemen for Iran bought Tomcat parts from the Defense Department's surplus division. Customs agents confiscated them and returned them to the Pentagon, which sold them again — customs evidence tags still attached — to another buyer, a suspected broker for Iran.

That incident appalled even an expert on weaknesses in Pentagon surplus security controls.

"That would be evidence of a significant breakdown, in my view, in controls and processes," said Greg Kutz, the
Government Accountability Office's head of special investigations. "It shouldn't happen the first time, let alone the second time."

A Defense Department official, Fred Baillie, said his agency followed procedures.

"The fact that those individuals chose to violate the law and the fact that the customs people caught them really indicates that the process is working," said Baillie, the Defense Logistics Agency's executive director of distribution. "Customs is supposed to check all exports to make sure that all the appropriate certifications and licenses had been granted."

The Pentagon recently retired its Tomcats and is shipping tens of thousands of spare parts to its surplus office — the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service — where they could be sold in public auctions. Iran is the only other country flying F-14s.

"It stands to reason Iran will be even more aggressive in seeking F-14 parts," said Stephen Bogni, head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement's arms export investigations. Iran can only produce about 15 percent of the parts itself, he said.

Sensitive military surplus items are supposed to be demilitarized or "de-milled" — rendered useless for military purposes — or, if auctioned, sold only to buyers who promise to obey U.S. arms embargoes, export controls and other laws.

The GAO, the investigative arm of Congress, found it alarmingly easy to acquire sensitive surplus. Last year, its agents bought $1.1 million worth — including rocket launchers, body armor and surveillance antennas — by driving onto a base and posing as defense contractors.

"They helped us load our van," Kutz said. Investigators used a fake identity to access a surplus Web site operated by a Pentagon contractor and bought still more, including a dozen microcircuits used on F-14 fighters.

The undercover buyers received phone calls from the Defense Department asking why they had no
Social Security number or credit history, but they deflected the questions by presenting a phony utility bill and claiming to be an identity theft victim.

The Pentagon's public surplus sales took in $57 million in fiscal 2005. The agency also moves extra supplies around within the government and gives surplus military gear such as weapons, armored personnel carriers and aircraft to state and local law enforcement.

Investigators have found the Pentagon's inventory and sales controls rife with errors. They say the sales are closely watched by friends and foes of the United States.

Among cases in which U.S. military technology made its way from surplus auctions to brokers for Iran, China and others:

_Items seized in December 2000 at a Bakersfield, Calif., warehouse that belonged to Multicore, described by U.S. prosecutors as a front company for Iran. Among the weaponry it acquired were fighter jet and missile components, including F-14 parts from Pentagon surplus sales, customs agents said. The surplus purchases were returned after two Multicore officers were sentenced to prison for weapons export violations. London-based Multicore is now out of business, but customs continues to investigate whether U.S. companies sold military equipment to it illegally.

In 2005, customs agents came upon the same surplus F-14 parts with the evidence labels still attached while investigating a different company suspected of serving as an Iranian front. They seized the items again. They declined to provide details because the investigation is ongoing.

_Arif Ali Durrani, a Pakistani, was convicted last year in California in the illegal export of weapons components to the United Arab Emirates, Malaysia and Belgium in 2004 and 2005 and sentenced to just over 12 years in prison. Customs investigators say the items included Chinook helicopter engine parts for Iran that he bought from a U.S. company that acquired them from a Pentagon surplus sale, and that those parts made it to Iran via Malaysia. Durrani is appealing his conviction.

An accomplice, former Naval intelligence officer George Budenz, pleaded guilty and was sentenced in July to a year in prison. Durrani's prison term is his second; he was convicted in 1987 of illegally exporting U.S. missile parts to Iran.

_State Metal Industries, a Camden, N.J., company convicted in June of violating export laws over a shipment of AIM-7 Sparrow missile guidance parts it bought from Pentagon surplus in 2003 and sold to an entity partly owned by the Chinese government. The company pleaded guilty to an export violation, was fined $250,000 and placed on probation for three years. Customs and Border Protection inspectors seized the parts — nearly 200 pieces of the guidance system for the Sparrow missile system — while inspecting cargo at a New Jersey port.

"Our mistake was selling it for export," said William Robertson, State Metal's attorney. He said the company knew the material was going to China but didn't know the Chinese government partially owned the buyer.

_In October, Ronald Wiseman, a longtime Pentagon surplus employee in the Middle East, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 18 months in prison for stealing surplus military Humvees and selling them to a customer in Saudi Arabia from 1999 to 2002. An accomplice, fellow surplus employee Gayden Woodson, will be sentenced this month.

The Humvees were equipped for combat zones and some weren't recovered, Assistant U.S. Attorney Laura Ingersoll said.

_A California company, All Ports, shipped hundreds of containers of U.S. military technology to China between 1994 and 1999, much of it acquired in Pentagon surplus sales, court documents show. Customs agents discovered the sales in May 1999 when All Ports tried to ship to China components for guided missiles, bombs, the B-1 bomber and underwater mines. The company and its owners were convicted in 2000; an appeals court upheld the conviction in 2002.

Rep. Christopher Shays (news, bio, voting record), R-Conn., called the cases "a huge breakdown, an absolute, huge breakdown."

"The military should not sell or give away any sensitive military equipment. If we no longer need it, it needs to be destroyed — totally destroyed," said Shays, until this month the chairman of a House panel on national security. "The
Department of Defense should not be supplying sensitive military equipment to our adversaries, our enemies, terrorists."

It's no secret to defense experts that valuable technology can be found amid surplus scrap.

On a visit to a Defense Department surplus site about five years ago, defense consultant Randall Sweeney literally stumbled upon some items that clearly shouldn't have been up for sale.

"I was walking through a pile of supposedly de-milled electrical items and found a heat-seeking missile warhead intact," Sweeney said, declining to identify the surplus location for security reasons. "I carried it over and showed them. I said, 'This shouldn't be in here.'"

Sweeney, president of Defense and Aerospace International in West Palm Beach, Fla., sees human error as a big problem. Surplus items are numbered, and an error of a single digit can make sensitive technology improperly available and knowledgeable buyers could easily spot a valuable item, he said. "I'm not the only sophisticated eye in the world," he said.

Baillie said the Pentagon is working to tighten security. Steps include setting up property centers to better identify surplus parts and employing people skilled at spotting sensitive items. If there is uncertainty about whether an item is safe, he said, it is destroyed.

Of the 76,000 parts for the F-14, 60 percent are "general hardware" such as nuts and bolts and can be sold to the public without restriction, Baillie said. About 10,000 are unique to Tomcats and will be destroyed, he said.

An additional 23,000 parts are valuable for military and commercial use and are being studied to see whether it's safe to sell them, Baillie said.

Asked why the Pentagon would sell any F-14 parts, given their value to Iran, Baillie said: "Our first priority truly is national security, and we take that very seriously. However, we have to balance that with our other requirement to be good stewards of the taxpayers' money."

Kutz, the government investigator, said surplus F-14 parts shouldn't be sold. He believes Iran already has Tomcat parts from Pentagon surplus sales: "The key now is, going forward, to shut that down and not let it happen again."


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #83 - Jan 16th, 2007 at 12:41pm
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I'm surprised F-14's are even considered airworthy these days.  Talk about old school!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #84 - Jan 19th, 2007 at 5:45pm
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Again take with a grain of salt...but if true...major scarryness!

Quote:
Reporter Claims Israeli Nuke Strike On Iran Averted By U.S. Fighters
Sources say F16 suicide mission armed with 20-kiloton bomb recalled by Israelis under threat of U.S. Sidewinder missile shootdown

Prison Planet | January 19, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

As escalation towards a war with Iran reaches fever pitch, an online journalist today breaks the astounding news that Israeli fighter jets have already attempted to bomb tactical locations in Iran with nuclear weapons nearly twice as powerful as the one dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, only to be turned back by U.S. warplanes over Iraq.

William Thomas, familiar to many for his work in ascertaining the true nature of chemtrails, cites two sources with U.S. and other military contacts who told him that on two recent occasions Israeli fighter bombers armed with both conventional and nuclear weapons were turned back by U.S. planes under threat of missile interception.

The latest incident occurred on January 7th, claims Thomas, in which jets trespassed beyond the authorized zone over Iraq "Before being recalled by Israeli authorities." Sources told Thomas that the attack squadron "Comprised three IAF F-16s. Each carried conventional munitions—as well as a single 20-kiloton nuclear bomb."

Thomas goes into great depth about the circumstances behind the attempted raid in a near 5,000 word article posted on his website .

According to Thomas' source, Israeli warplanes "Are routinely “topped off” by American aerial refueling tankers, but only on condition that the Israeli jets fly a “racetrack” holding pattern—and do not continue “downtown” toward Iran."

The target of the January 7 raid was purported to be Iran's 3rd Tactical Air Base at Hamadan, where Revolutionary Guard troops and substantial weapons deposits are stationed. The source even suggested that the attack was designed to be a one way kamikaze mission whereby, "Volunteer pilots are prepared to fly their nuclear bombs “into their targets” if necessary."

The news dovetails yesterday's scare, briefly provoked by a rumor that an Iranian missile had struck a U.S. naval vessel in the Gulf. "The bond market briefly pared losses on talk of possible military engagement between the United States and Iran, but turned back down after the Defense Department said the incident did not occur," reported Reuters .

This followed reports on Wednesday that Iran had shot down a U.S. drone near its border.

It also comes after Iranian officials condemned a U.S. raid on a consulate in the northern Iraqi city of Irbil, during which five Iranian diplomats were kidnapped. Many saw the raid, which was directly authorized by the White House, as an outright attempt on behalf of the U.S. to provoke a heavy handed Iranian response that would boost the Neo-Con's justification for war.

Republican Congressman and Presidential candidate Ron Paul recently expressed his fear during a speech on the House floor that the Bush administration could contrive a staged Gulf of Tonkin style incident to garner domestic and international support for an air strike on Iran's nuclear facilities.

Over the last two weeks events have accelerated a seemingly inevitable path to conflict. American aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines are multiplying in the Persian Gulf and Bush recently appointed Adm. William Fallon, a Navy veteran, to oversee the ground war in Iraq, a contradiction many fear betrays preparation for an attack on Iran's uranium enrichment facilities which could take place as soon as next month according to several analysts.

A bipartisan group of lawmakers in Congress is attempting to rush though legislation that would bar President Bush from authorizing an attack on Iran without House approval but it all seems to be too little too late. Bush's entire Presidency has characterized itself as a unitary dictatorship and his administration has proven itself time and time again perfectly willing to completely ignore the will of Congress and the people in pursuing its preset agenda. In addition, Bush could avoid having to go to Congress by simply providing tacit support for an Israeli strike portrayed as a lone action, as happened this past summer in Lebanon.

The most interesting aspect of such an attack if it does take place will undoubtedly be the response of Russia. Having taken measures to protect their investment in the growth of Iranian nuclear facilities by providing state of the art missile defense systems, the Russians have received severe condemnation from both the U.S. and Israel.

The Turkish Weekly quoted a senior Israeli official in Jerusalem who took a bold swipe at Russia by stating, "We hope they understand that this is a threat that could come back to them as well."
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #85 - Jan 22nd, 2007 at 3:35pm
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I was just reading a story today that Terran thinks it could destroy Israel with one nuke.  While that is as ludacris as match being able to melt steel (although with 9/11 I guess that happend  Wink ) I was just thinking about some scenarios.

If Iran was to attack say Jerusalem wouldn't the ramifications of attacking a holy site by the three main religions of the world bring about the quickest end to Iran's existence?  It seems that since the mixing of Israel and Palestine's people in locations would cause for the Muslim world to tread carefully when planning to attack Israel.

Does anyone have any response to this?  Basically my question is since Israel shares it's territory with Muslim people and holy sites deemed so by both sides, wouldn't that make it less of a target from Muslim states?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #86 - Jan 22nd, 2007 at 6:55pm
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Ya i saw that article too, it was written by an Israeli think tank type person. I think he is just crying wolf, cause Iran would not nuke Jerusalem. Or could nuke Jerusalem. They are so far off of having the bomb, or even trying to get the bomb, that this is ludicrous. This guy is just an alarmist. Even if (big if) Iran had a nuclear weapon it would not be big (Israel's nukes are not very large either) enough to take out more than the center of a city. Israel is about 40ish miles wide and 230ish miles long, lots of space.

Tel  Aviv is 30 miles from Jerusalem, and thats not enough even for the largest US hydrogen bomb to reach both cities.

Pure alarmist BS.


EDIT: ya i didn't answer the question really. Being the 3rd holiest site in Islam, i would say Jerusalem won't be getting an atomic bomb anytime soon.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #87 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 11:12am
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Quote:
North Korea Agrees to End Nuke Program
Tuesday , February 13, 2007

BEIJING —

North Korea agreed Tuesday to shut down its main nuclear reactor within 60 days at talks with the U.S. and four regional powers and eventually dismantle its atomic weapons program.

Under the deal, the North will receive an initial 50,000 tons worth of aid in heavy fuel oil for shutting down and sealing its main nuclear reactor, to be confirmed by international inspectors, Chinese envoy Wu Dawei said. The North will eventually receive another 950,000 tons in aid for irreversibly disabling the reactor.

If Pyongyang goes through with its promises, they would be the first moves the communist nation has made to scale back its atomic development after more that three years of six-nation negotiations marked by delays, deadlock and the North's first nuclear test explosion in October.

• Monitor the nuclear showdown on the Korean Peninsula in FOXNews.com's North Korea Center.

Under the agreement, North Korea and United States will also embark on talks aimed at resolving disputes and restarting diplomatic relations, Wu said. The Korean peninsula has remained in a state of war for more than a half-century since the Korean War ended in a 1953 cease-fire.

The United States will begin the process of removing North Korea from its designation as a terror-sponsoring state and also on ending U.S. trade sanctions, but no deadlines was set, according to the agreement.

Japan and North Korea also will seek to normalize relations, Wu said.

After the initial 60 days, foreign ministers from all countries at the talks will meet -- China, Japan, Russia, the United States and the two Koreas. Another meeting of the nuclear envoys was scheduled March 19.

Under a 1994 U.S.-North Korea disarmament agreement, the North was to receive 500,000 tons of fuel oil a year before construction was completed of two nuclear reactors that would be able to generate 2 million kilowatts of electricity.

That deal fell apart in late 2002 when the U.S. accused the North of conducting a secret uranium enrichment program, sparking the latest nuclear crisis that led to the six-nation talks.

In September 2005, North Korea was promised energy aid and security guarantees in exchange for pledging to abandon its nuclear programs. But talks on implementing that agreement repeatedly stalled on other issues.



I wonder what we had to give them this time that wasn't reported?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #88 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 12:14pm
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I'm more scared about what we had to give CHINA.  They were really a main instrument in dealing with NK.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #89 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 1:37pm
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That's very true.  It looks like China was the main player in convincing NK to step down.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #90 - Feb 14th, 2007 at 9:40am
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Quote:
Austrian sniper rifles sold to Iran found in Iraq: report
Agence France-Presse | Feb 13, 2007

US troops have found more than a hundred Austrian-made sniper rifles, which were sold to Iran, in a Baghdad raid on insurgents, The Daily Telegraph has reported citing unnamed defence sources.

The .50 calibre weapons, which are capable of penetrating body armour, were part of a shipment of 800 rifles exported by Austrian arms manufacturer Steyr-Mannlicher to Iran last year, the newspaper said.

"Although we did make our worries known the sale unfortunately went ahead, and now the potential that these weapons could fall into the wrong hands appears to have happened," a spokesman for the British foreign ministry was quoted as saying by the Telegraph.

Britain and the United States had condemned the sale when it originally happened because of their fears that the weapons, which the National Iranian Police Organisation said it was buying to use against drug smugglers, would find their way to insurgents in Iraq.

The report comes days after top US defense officials said that sophisticated Iranian-built bombs smuggled into Iraq have killed at least 170 US and allied soldiers since June 2004 and wounded 620 more.

According to The Daily Telegraph, within 45 days of the HS50 Steyr-Mannlicher rifles arriving in Iran, a US soldier in an armoured vehicle was killed by an Iraqi insurgent using one of the weapons.

US troops had found in the past six months small numbers of the rifles, which each cost 10,000 pounds (15,000 euros, 19,500 dollars), but a raid in Baghdad over the last 24 hours has increased that total to more than a hundred


If memory serves me correctly, Steyr offered to stop the sale if the United States government allowed them to sell their other products here in America.  The government told them to pound sand.  Essentially, they would rather have Iran provide the militants with .50's than give you and I the opportunity to own a Steyr Aug.

-b0b
(...isn't clearing Steyr of guilt by any means.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #91 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:35am
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Quote:
Sudden Jihad Syndrome
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, February 16, 2007 4:20 PM PST

Terror: It looks like the Muslim teen who opened fire on shoppers in a Salt Lake City mall is yet another case of "sudden jihad syndrome," a condition in which normal-appearing American Muslims abruptly turn violent.

Taken together, this and other cases add up to an invisible jihad inside America. But don't tell that to the FBI. The politically correct bureau does everything it can to avoid recognizing the obvious Islamic factor in these heinous crimes.

Sulejman Talovic, an 18-year-old Bosnian Muslim immigrant, was loaded with enough ammo to "inexplicably" kill dozens of victims — and he would have, if an alert off-duty cop hadn't returned fire and stopped him. Talovic still managed to methodically murder five and wound four others with a shotgun.

Witnesses say it was an act of coldblooded violence aimed at random victims — something otherwise known as terrorism. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Talovic attended Friday prayers at a mosque about a block from the mall.

Yet the FBI saw no religious motive, and quickly ruled out terrorism. Nor could it find anything to indicate terrorism in several other Muslim-tied cases since 9/11, including:

• A 30-year-old Muslim man, Naveed Afzal Haq, who went on a shooting rampage at a Jewish community center in Seattle, announcing "I'm a Muslim-American; I'm angry at Israel."

• An Egyptian national, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, who shot two and wounded three at an Israeli airline ticket counter at LAX.

• A bearded 21-year-old student, Joel Hinrichs, who blew himself up with a backpack filled with TATP (the explosive of choice in the Mideast) outside a packed Oklahoma University football stadium not long after he started attending the local mosque.

• A 23-year-old student, Mohammed Ali Alayed, who slashed the throat of his Jewish friend in Houston after apparently undergoing a religious awakening (he went to a local mosque afterward).

• The D.C. snipers — John Muhammad and Lee Malvo, both black Muslim converts — who picked off 13 people in the suburbs around the Beltway as part of what Muhammad described as a "prolonged terror campaign against America" around the first anniversary of 9/11, which he had praised.

• Omeed Aziz Popal of Fremont, Calif., who police said hit and killed a bicyclist there then took his SUV on a hit-and-run spree in San Francisco, mowing down pedestrians at crosswalks and on sidewalks before police caught up with him, whereupon the Muslim called himself a "terrorist."

• A 22-year-old Muslim, Ismail Yassin Mohamed, who stole a car in Minneapolis and rammed it into other cars before stealing a van and doing the same, injuring drivers and pedestrians, while repeatedly yelling, "Die, die, die, kill, kill, kill" — all, he said, on orders from "Allah."

• A 22-year-old Iranian honors student, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, who deliberately rammed his SUV into a crowd at the University of North Carolina to "punish the government of the United States" for invading Iraq and other Muslim nations.

Described by other students as "kind and gentle," Taheri-azar was a student council president and a member of the National Honor Society in high school. He told the judge he was "thankful you're here to learn more about the will of Allah."

He wrote a letter to a TV station citing Quranic verses justifying his attacks and told a detective that Muslims "all over the world are being killed, and now it is the people in the United States' turn to be killed."

This is not terrorism, the FBI said. Just some nutty kid. In all these cases, the feds' first reaction was to shrug. They said the perps were lone individuals who just went ballistic after having a bad day, as if anyone could have done such crimes.

But they weren't just anyone. They were all young Muslim men. Of course, the FBI can't treat all law-abiding young Muslim men as potential killers. But neither should the agency ignore this trend.

We're likely to see more of these seemingly random domestic attacks. They may seem isolated, but all have radical Islam at their nexus. They're not "senseless" or "utterly inexplicable" or "impossible to rationalize," as the media intone. They are purposeful. These men act as conscripts called up for a mission, sick as it is.

www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=256521423294106



Here's another case of "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" that came out the other day.


Quote:
Killer's daughter admits it was political



BY MAHMOUD HABBOUSH
SPECIAL TO THE NEWS


GAZA CITY - Ali Abu Kamal's relatives say they are tired of lying about why the Palestinian opened fire on the observation deck of Empire State Building, killing a tourist and injuring six other people before committing suicide.
Kamal's widow insisted after the shooting spree that the attack was not politically motivated. She said that her husband had become suicidal after losing $300,000 in a business venture.

But in a stunning admission, Kamal's 48-year-old daughter Linda told the Daily News that her dad wanted to punish the U.S. for supporting Israel - and revealed her mom's 1997 account was a cover story crafted by the Palestinian Authority.

"A Palestinian Authority official advised us to say the attack was not for political reasons because that would harm the peace agreement with Israel," she told The News on Friday. "We didn't know that he was martyred for patriotic motivations, so we repeated what we were told to do."

But three days after the shootings, Kamal's family got a copy of a letter that was found on his body, they said. The letter said he planned the violence as a political statement, his daughter said.

"When we wanted to clarify that to the media, nobody listened to us," she said. "His goal was patriotic. He wanted to take revenge from the Americans, the British, the French and the Israelis."

She said the family became certain that he carried out the attack for political reasons after reading his diary.

"He wrote that after he raised his children and made sure that his family was all right he decided to avenge in the highest building in America to make sure they get his message," said Linda, who works for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees.

She said her mom burned the diary, fearing that it would cause the family trouble.

www.nydailynews.com/front/story/498674p-420269c.html



...and here's another one from this weekend.


Quote:
Cabbie Runs Down Students
Religious Argument Leaves One Hospitalized

POSTED: 5:01 pm CST February 18, 2007
UPDATED: 7:12 pm CST February 18, 2007



NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A local cab driver allegedly tried to run over two customers after a fight over religion became heated.

The incident happened early Sunday morning on the Vanderbilt campus and left one man hospitalized and a cab driver arrested, said police

Two students visiting from Ohio were coming from a bar downtown when they got into an argument with their driver over religion, said police. After they paid the driver he allegedly ran them down in a parking lot.


Ibrihim Ahmned, of United Cab, was arrested and charged with assault, attempted homicide and theft. One of the passengers, Andrew Nelson, managed to outrun the cab but Jeremy Invus was taken to the Vanderbilt University Medical Center with serious injuries, said police.

Ahmed has been convicted of misdemeanors including evading arrest in a motor vehicle and driving on a suspended license, said police.

Ahmed was charged with theft because police said the license plate on his cab was listed as stolen. His bond is set at $300,000.

www.wsmv.com/news/11048353/detail.html


-b0b
(...points to the destruction of America.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #92 - Feb 21st, 2007 at 2:37pm
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Hmmm doo dee doo dee dooo...what?!  NO REASON!!!

Quote:
Second US carrier arrives off Iran

From correspondents in Manama

February 20, 2007 08:12pm


A SECOND US aircraft carrier arrived in Middle Eastern waters today as promised by US President George W Bush amid an escalating crisis with nearby Iran over its nuclear program.

The USS John C Stennis and its accompanying strike group joined the USS Dwight D Eisenhower in the Sea of Oman but has not yet entered Gulf waters, the US Fifth Fleet said from its base in Manama.

The Stennis "entered the US 5th Fleet area of operations ... to conduct maritime security operations in regional waters, as well as to provide support for ground forces operating in Afghanistan and Iraq", said a US statement.

Mr Bush on January 10 unveiled his new strategy for Iraq which included deploying a second aircraft carrier group and a Patriot anti-missile defence system "to reassure our friends and allies".

Washington accuses arch-foe Tehran of stoking the insurgency in Iraq and of seeking to develop a nuclear bomb, charges denied by the Islamic republic.

Days after Mr Bush's announcement, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said the Stennis's redeployment was a signal to Iran, which, he said, has a "very negative" attitude.

Iran has also been carrying out military exercises in the region, including test-firing missiles and building drones that military commanders boasted could hit the US navy.

The White House has repeatedly insisted it has no plans to strike Iran, and downplayed the significance of reinforcing the US military presence in the Gulf region.


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #93 - Feb 21st, 2007 at 3:33pm
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Things are coming to a head.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #94 - Mar 1st, 2007 at 9:24am
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I realize this isn't a "conflict" in the truest sense, but I thought this was the best place to put it.


Quote:
www.breakingnews.ie/World/?jp=CWSNSNGBGBSN

At least 11 people died and more than 100 people were injured at an annual spring festival in eastern Pakistan celebrated with the flying of thousands of colourful kites, officials said today.

The deaths and injuries were caused by stray bullets, sharpened kite-strings, electrocution and people falling off rooftops yesterday at the conclusion of the two-day Basant festival, said Ruqia Bano, spokeswoman for emergency service in the city of Lahore.

The festival is regularly marred by casualties caused by sharp kite strings or celebratory gunshots fired into the air.

Kite flyers often use strings made of wire or coated with ground glass to try to cross and cut a rival’s string or damage the other kite, often after betting on the outcome.

Authorities temporarily lifted a ban on kite flying that was imposed last year following a string of deaths at the festival.

Lahore Mayor Mian Amier Mahmood said that the two-day permission to fly kites ended yesterday and the ban has been re-imposed.

Police arrested more than 700 people for using sharpened kite strings or firing guns and seized 282 illegally held weapons during this year’s festival, said Aftab Cheema, a senior Lahore police officer.



Only the Religion of Peace could turn a kite flying festival into a bloodbath.

Quote:
Authorities temporarily lifted a ban on kite flying that was imposed last year following a string of deaths at the festival.


Pun intended?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #95 - Mar 1st, 2007 at 11:24am
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Here's another take on the story...

Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254578,00.html


11 Dead, Over 100 Hurt at Kite Flying Festival in Pakistan

Monday, February 26, 2007

LAHORE, Pakistan — At least 11 people died and more than 100 people were injured at an annual spring festival in eastern Pakistan celebrated with the flying of thousands of colorful kites, officials said Monday.

The deaths and injuries were caused by stray bullets, sharpened kite-strings, electrocution and people falling off rooftops on Sunday at the conclusion of the two-day Basant festival, said Ruqia Bano, spokeswoman for the emergency services in the city of Lahore.

The festival is regularly marred by casualties caused by sharp kite strings or celebratory gunshots fired into the air. Kite flyers often use strings made of wire or coated with ground glass to try to cross and cut a rival's string or damage the other kite, often after betting on the outcome.

Authorities temporarily lifted a ban on kite flying that was imposed following a string of deaths at the festival last year. Lahore Mayor Mian Amier Mahmood said the two-day permission to fly kites ended Sunday and that the ban has been re-imposed.

Police arrested more than 700 people for using sharpened kite strings or firing guns, and seized 282 illegally held weapons during this year's festival, said Aftab Cheema, a senior Lahore police officer.

Five of those who died on Sunday were hit by stray bullets, including a 6-year-school boy who was struck in the head near his home in the city's Mazang area, Bano said.

A 16-year-old girl and a school boy, 12, died after their throats were slashed by metal kite strings in separate incidents. Two people were electrocuted while they tried to recover kites tangled in overhead power cables, Bano said.

A 13-year-old boy fell to his death from the roof of his home as he tried to catch a stray kite, and a 35-year-old woman fell off the roof of her home trying to stop her son from running after a stray kite, Bano said.

Basant — which means yellow in Hindi — symbolizes the yellow mustard flowers that usually blossom in Pakistan at this time of the year.


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #96 - Mar 14th, 2007 at 1:38pm
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Quote:
Iranians outraged by `300' movie By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer
Tue Mar 13, 4:29 PM ET



TEHRAN, Iran - The hit American movie "300" has angered Iranians who say the Greeks-vs-Persians action flick insults their ancient culture and provokes animosity against Iran.

ADVERTISEMENT

"Hollywood declares war on Iranians," blared a headline in Tuesday's edition of the independent Ayende-No newspaper.

The movie, which raked in $70 million in its opening weekend, is based on a comic-book fantasy version of the battle of Thermopylae in 480 B.C., in which a force of 300 Spartans held off a massive Persian army at a mountain pass in Greece for three days.

Even some American reviewers noted the political overtones of the West-against-Iran story line — and the way Persians are depicted as decadent, sexually flamboyant and evil in contrast to the noble Greeks.

In Iran, the movie hasn't opened and probably never will, given the government's restrictions on Western films, though one paper said bootleg DVDs were already available.

Still, it touched a sensitive nerve. Javad Shamghadri, cultural adviser to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said the United States tries to "humiliate" Iran in order to reverse historical reality and "compensate for its wrongdoings in order to provoke American soldiers and warmongers" against Iran.

The movie comes at a time of increased tensions between the United States and Iran over the Persian nation's nuclear program and the Iraq war.

But aside from politics, the film was seen as an attack on Persian history, a source of pride for Iranians across the political spectrum, including critics of the current Islamic regime.

State-run television has run several commentaries the past two days calling the film insulting and has brought on Iranian film directors to point out its historical inaccuracies.

"The film depicts Iranians as demons, without culture, feeling or humanity, who think of nothing except attacking other nations and killing people," Ayende-No said in its article Tuesday.

"It is a new effort to slander the Iranian people and civilization before world public opinion at a time of increasing American threats against Iran," it said.

Iran's biggest circulation newspaper, Hamshahri, said "300" is "serving the policy of the U.S. leadership" and predicted it will "prompt a wave of protest in the world. ... Iranians living in the U.S. and Europe will not be indifferent about this obvious insult."


Boo.

Freakin'.

Hoo.

I swear, it seems like there is a new headline every day that reads:

<Some group of Muslims> are OUTRAGED over <some inconsequential crap>!

I think we need to send Iran a letter expressing our... ahem... outrage.

Quote:
Dear Iran,

We hated you before this movie came out, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

Regards,
The Geek Crew


-b0b
(...never thought he'd be posting about a movie in this thread.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #97 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 12:00pm
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Quote:
U.S. Navy Shows Force in Persian Gulf

By JIM KRANE
The Associated Press
Tuesday, March 27, 2007; 5:58 AM

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- The U.S. Navy on Tuesday began its largest demonstration of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, led by a pair of aircraft carriers and backed by warplanes flying simulated attack maneuvers off the coast of Iran.

The maneuvers bring together two strike groups of U.S. warships and more than 100 U.S. warplanes to conduct simulated air warfare in the crowded Gulf shipping lanes.

The U.S. exercises come just four days after Iran's capture of 15 British sailors and marines who Iran said had strayed into Iranian waters near the Gulf. Britain and the U.S. Navy have insisted the British sailors were operating in Iraqi waters.

U.S. Navy Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl said the U.S. maneuvers were not organized in response to the capture of the British sailors _ nor were they meant to threaten the Islamic Republic, whose navy operates in the same waters.

He declined to specify when the Navy planned the exercises.

Aandahl said the U.S. warships would stay out of Iranian territorial waters, which extend 12 miles off the Iranian coast.

A French naval strike group, led by the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, was operating simultaneously just outside the Gulf. But the French ships were supporting the NATO forces in Afghanistan and not taking part in the U.S. maneuvers, officials said.

Overall, the exercises involve more than 10,000 U.S. personnel on warships and aircraft making simulated attacks on enemy shipping with aircraft and ships, hunting enemy submarines and finding mines.

"What it should be seen as by Iran or anyone else is that it's for regional stability and security," Aandahl said. "These ships are just another demonstration of that. If there's a destabilizing effect, it's Iran's behavior."


It looks like things are really heating up again!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #98 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 12:03pm
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vandetta vandetta!


maybe next time we should consider helping another country...



oh well, more enemies the better....amiright?!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #99 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 1:23pm
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Man its getting messy over there.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #100 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 1:36pm
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MediaMaster wrote on Mar 28th, 2007 at 1:23pm:
Man its getting messy over there.


No kidding.  Did you see the post about the "Great Poo Flood of 2006" in the other thread?

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #101 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 1:57pm
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Poo jokes are fun! haha
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #102 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 2:18pm
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jokes!  ... i get jokes, they're funny
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #103 - Mar 31st, 2007 at 10:04am
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Quote:
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/124026

British Forces Surround Iranian Consulate in Iraq


(IsraelNN.com) British forces have surrounded the Iranian consular offices in southern Iraq in an effort to force Tehran to free 15 British sailors and marines siezed last week. They allegedly entered Iranian waters, a charge Britain denies.

The latest British action comes one day after Iran broadcast a video of an alleged confession by a female British sailor that the naval patrol entered Iranian waters. The British Foreign Office replied that the video was "completely unacceptable."

The video featured the woman, Faye Turney, wearing a headscarf and makeup and puffing a cigarette. Broadcast in Arabic with a translation, she said, "Obviously we trespassed into their waters. They were very friendly and very hospitable, very thoughtful, nice people. They explained to us why we've been arrested; there was no harm, no aggression."

Iran is seeking the release of five officials arrested by American forces in Iraq in January for being members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, a charge Iran denies.




It looks like this is turning into one heck of a game of brinkmanship...

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #104 - Mar 31st, 2007 at 11:49am
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Wow obviously the guy with the sign doesn't understand the word "aggressors" and the underlying word of "intrusion".  Whether a mistake or even on purpose just crossing the boarder into another country doesn't count as spying.  If they had a nuke or explosive then I could understand that more...but come on man...do some of your own thinking...oh wait I forgot...they're Muslim theocratics they let the state do their thinking and blame everything on their religion!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #105 - Mar 31st, 2007 at 11:58am
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Ain't that the truth.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #106 - Apr 3rd, 2007 at 10:40pm
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What would you call a country who supports a group of foreign troops to go into another country and attack the military occupying there?  Terrorists is the right answer.  And if you think the following article is about Iran sending troops into Iraq to attack American troops....you're completely backwards!

Quote:
ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran

April 03, 2007 5:25 PM

Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:

Iran_militant_group_nr A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

The group, called Jundullah, is made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran.

It has taken responsibility for the deaths and kidnappings of more than a dozen Iranian soldiers and officials.
THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDS

    * Blotter Exclusive: Iran Nuclear Bomb Could Be Possible by 2009
    * World News Video Iran's Nuclear Program on the Fast Track
    * Click Here to Check Out Brian Ross Slideshows

U.S. officials say the U.S. relationship with Jundullah is arranged so that the U.S. provides no funding to the group, which would require an official presidential order or "finding" as well as congressional oversight.

Tribal sources tell ABC News that money for Jundullah is funneled to its youthful leader, Abd el Malik Regi, through Iranian exiles who have connections with European and Gulf states.

Click Here for Full Blotter Coverage.

Jundullah has produced its own videos showing Iranian soldiers and border guards it says it has captured and brought back to Pakistan.

The leader, Regi, claims to have personally executed some of the Iranians.

"He used to fight with the Taliban. He's part drug smuggler, part Taliban, part Sunni activist," said Alexis Debat, a senior fellow on counterterrorism at the Nixon Center and an ABC News consultant who recently met with Pakistani officials and tribal members.

"Regi is essentially commanding a force of several hundred guerrilla fighters that stage attacks across the border into Iran on Iranian military officers, Iranian intelligence officers, kidnapping them, executing them on camera," Debat said.

Most recently, Jundullah took credit for an attack in February that killed at least 11 members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard riding on a bus in the Iranian city of Zahedan.

Last month, Iranian state television broadcast what it said were confessions by those responsible for the bus attack.

They reportedly admitted to being members of Jundullah and said they had been trained for the mission at a secret location in Pakistan.

The Iranian TV broadcast is interspersed with the logo of the CIA, which the broadcast blamed for the plot.

A CIA spokesperson said "the account of alleged CIA action is false" and reiterated that the U.S. provides no funding of the Jundullah group.

Pakistani government sources say the secret campaign against Iran by Jundullah was on the agenda when Vice President Dick Cheney met with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf in February.

A senior U.S. government official said groups such as Jundullah have been helpful in tracking al Qaeda figures and that it was appropriate for the U.S. to deal with such groups in that context.

Some former CIA officers say the arrangement is reminiscent of how the U.S. government used proxy armies, funded by other countries including Saudi Arabia, to destabilize the government of Nicaragua in the 1980s.


Do as I say not as I do should be our national motto!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #107 - Apr 4th, 2007 at 1:16pm
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Iranian Leader Says He'll Free Britons

Apr 4, 9:14 AM (ET)

(AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad waves to the media as he arrives at a press conference in...
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TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says he has pardoned and will free the 15 British sailors and marines detained in the Gulf last month.

Ahmadinejad also gave medals of honor to the Iranian coast guards who intercepted the 15 British sailors and marines in the Gulf, saying Iran will never accept tresspassing of its territorial waters.

"On behalf of the great Iranian people, I want to thank the Iranian Coast Guard who courageously defended and captured those who violated their territorial waters, the president told a press conference.

He then interrupted his speech and pinned medals on the chests of three Coast Guard officers involved in capturing the British sailors and marines in the northern Gulf on March 23.

"We are sorry that British troops remain in Iraq and their sailors are being arrested in Iran," Ahmadinejad said.

He criticized Britain for deploying Leading Seaman Faye Turney, one of the 15 detainees, in the Gulf, pointing out that she is a woman with a child.

Also Wednesday, Iran's state media reported that an Iranian envoy will be allowed to meet five Iranians detained by U.S. forces in northern Iraq since January.

A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said, however, that American authorities were still considering the request. The spokesman, Maj. Gen. William C. Caldwell, said an international Red Cross team, including one Iranian, had visited the prisoners but he did not say when.


-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #108 - Apr 4th, 2007 at 1:29pm
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(...the end?)

or just the beginning! duhn duhhhh
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #109 - Apr 4th, 2007 at 1:46pm
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I want to know why they made them dress up in track suits!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #110 - Apr 17th, 2007 at 4:46pm
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The cat's out of the bag now and the clock is ticking!

Quote:
Iran 'is seeking N Korea's nuclear expertise'

By Con Coughlin telegraph.co.uk

Last Updated: 11:43am BST 17/04/2007



Iran and North Korea have appointed high-level delegations to deepen co-operation between the two countries on nuclear weapons technology, according to diplomatic sources in Beijing.

The countries are keen to seal a deal before North Korea starts to close its controversial Yongbyon reactor under the terms of an agreement with the United States and regional powers in February.


N. Korea's Yongbyon reactor

The Feb 13 accord was negotiated after North Korea conducted a successful test of a nuclear warhead at the end of last year. Following the international outcry that greeted the test, Pyongyang agreed to close the reactor in return for aid.

But the North Koreans missed the weekend's deadline to start shutting down the reactor, claiming that the United States was refusing to release £15 million of North Korean funds frozen in bank accounts in Macau.

The US state department has demanded that North Korea should "immediately" invite the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to begin sealing the facility.

South Korea said yesterday that it was considering delaying rice aid to North Korea because of Pyongyang's failure to comply with the agreement.

Iran has taken advantage of the delay to intensify attempts to negotiate a deal that would give Teheran access to the nuclear expertise North Korea acquired during last year's atom bomb test.

Iranian scientists have already been invited to Pyongyang to study data collected from the test. Beijing-based diplomats responsible for monitoring North Korea say that Iran is now keen to negotiate a deal that would deepen the level of nuclear co-operation.

Although, under the terms of the February agreement, North Korea has agreed to shut the Yongbyon reactor - which provided the fissile material for the nuclear test - the agreement puts no limits on North Korea to export the expertise it acquired from the test.

"As the agreement currently stands, there are no restrictions on the proliferation of nuclear technology North Korea acquired last year," said a well-placed diplomat. "Iran is desperate to take advantage of this loophole to buy Pyongyang's expertise on building nuclear weapons."


President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gives a speech during a visit to Iran's Natanz uranium enrichment facility

Despite Teheran's insistence that its nuclear programme is aimed at meeting the country's future energy needs, Iran has already admitted to buying the blueprint for Pakistan's nuclear bomb from Dr A Q Khan, the "father" of that country's atom bomb. Nuclear experts believe that Iran is now seeking to acquire North Korea's expertise to assist its own clandestine programme to develop a nuclear weapons arsenal.

The Iranian delegation handling the negotiations with North Korea report directly to Reza Aghazadeh, the country's vice president and the head of the Atomic Energy Organisation of Iran, who has overall responsibility for the controversial programme.

Senior officials from Aerospace Industries Organisation of Iran, which is responsible for the development of a ballistic missile programme, have also attended the talks.

Iran's Shahab-3 missile is based on North Korea's Nodong ballistic missiles and Teheran is also keen to maintain the existing co-operation between the two countries on the development of long-range missiles.

Meetings between the two delegations have taken place at the Chinese border city of Shenyang, because the Iranians are keen not to draw attention to their increased co-operation with Pyongyang.


Word.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #111 - Apr 18th, 2007 at 6:41am
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Quote:
North Korea's Nodong ballistic missiles



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



...HAHAHAHAHHA!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #112 - May 8th, 2007 at 8:38am
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Quote:
6 held on terror conspiracy charges in N.J.Group allegedly plotted to attack Fort Dix military base, WNBC reports

NBC, MSNBC and news services
Updated: 10 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Six men were arrested overnight on terror conspiracy charges in New Jersey, WNBC reported on Tuesday.

Investigators said the men wanted to use AK-47s to storm the Fort Dix military base. The arrests were first reported by WNBC's Jonathan Dienst. WNBC is the flagship NBC television station for the New York tri-state area.

Investigators told the station that the group discussed a number of possible targets, including the Dover Air base, Fort Monmouth and Coast Guard stations, but that they concluded the best target was Fort Dix.

Fort Dix, which is run in part by the U.S. Army, is a reserve training center but active units also take part in training at the base, some of which is focused on counter-terrorism.

Federal law enforcement officials confirmed the arrests, saying that the six were planning to get automatic weapons to shoot at U.S. service members. Investigators told NBC’s Pete Williams that the plot was in the planning stages but was not imminent.

Acting on a tip, and with the help of an informant, the men were placed under surveillance. Investigators say some of the group's members -- all men and all believed to be Islamic radicals -- went to the Poconos over the past several months to practice firing guns. Some of the men were born overseas, in Albania and the former Yugoslavia. (Kosovo?)

Intelligence officials told NBC News' Robert Windrem that they do not believe the plot was directed by al-Qaida because it did not match the key al-Qaida tenet: spectacular multiple simultaneous attacks.

However, the idea that the men were using al-Qaida training films and following al-Qaida goals shows that there is a large number of people who can create such plots inspired by the terrorist organization, the officials said.

The FBI and the US attorney plan a news conference later Tuesday to discuss the investigation.


Six men attacking an Army base?  What am I missing here?

Besides, AK's aren't legal in NJ.  How would terrorists buy them?!  Are you telling me gun control doesn't stop terrorists from acquiring "assault weapons"?  Outrage!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #113 - May 15th, 2007 at 11:30am
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Quote:
Pakistan on brink of disaster as Karachi burns

By Isambard Wilkinson and Massoud Ansari in Karachi, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:37pm BST 12/05/2007

In pictures: Violence in Karachi

Chaos gripped the streets of Karachi yesterday as gun battles left at least 31 people dead and hundreds more injured, threatening a complete breakdown of law and order in Pakistan's largest and most volatile city.

With plumes of black smoke billowing over the city of 12 million people, there were extraordinary scenes as gunmen on motorbikes pumped bullets into crowds demonstrating against Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf, while police stood by and watched.

     
Gun battles left at least 31 people dead and hundreds more injured


In images more reminiscent of Baghdad, bloodstained corpses lay where they had fallen in the streets and bodies piled up in hospital morgues. As the sense of crisis deepened, a crisis meeting between Gen Musharraf and the prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, resolved to send in paramilitary troops to restore order, and to place the army on standby. The men agreed that a state of emergency would be imposed if the first two options failed.

It was the bloodiest escalation of the two-month long saga which began when the president attempted to sack the country's chief justice in March. The ensuing challenge by lawyers and opposition parties to Gen Musharraf's eight-year rule has left the president - a key Western ally in the "war on terror" - desperately clinging to power.

Opponents believe he had hoped to create a compliant judiciary ahead of elections which he has promised to hold later this year. But what started as a political confrontation has now lit Karachi's tinderbox of ethnic rivalry.

Yesterday's violence erupted as Iftikhar Chaudhry, the suspended chief justice, flew in to Karachi Jinah International Airport to address a rally.

Many of the 15,000 police and security forces deployed in the city stood idly by as armed activists from Karachi's ruling party, Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), a coalition ally of Gen Musharraf, blocked Mr Chaudhry's exit from the airport and took control of the city's central district.

The movement's leader, Altaf Hussain - who lives in self-imposed exile in London - co-ordinated opposition to Mr Chaudhry's arrival and addressed crowds gathered on the streets of Karachi in a mobile phone call relayed by loudspeakers.

He called on supporters to be peaceful but to show whose city it was. Instead, violence reigned.

Gunmen tore off on motorbikes after brazenly firing AK-47 rifles at opposition supporters. One report described MQM gunmen exchanging gunfire for an hour with activists from the exiled former premier Benazir Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party.

Road blocks, including trucks with deflated tires, prevented most of Mr Chaudhry's supporters from reaching the airport to greet him. But a few dozen lawyers who reached there on foot chanted, "We are with you. Down with Musharraf." Dozens of vehicles and petrol pumps were set alight by the angry mobs.

i6.tinypic.com/53hph5f.jpg      
Vehicles were set alight as clashes broke out between political activists


Inside Mr Chaudhry's intended destination, Sind's high court, hundreds of lawyers, some of them bloodied after being beaten up by MQM supporters, milled about chanting slogans and receiving news on their mobile phones about the trouble engulfing them. Outside, MQM activists with pistols tucked into their jeans, blocked the entrance.

Lawyers railed against the government. "This is a shocking attempt by the government to suppress the people," Iqbal Haider, a human rights lawyer and former senator, told The Sunday Telegraph. "Musharraf is making all sorts of mistakes to save himself from sinking."

As fans stirred the humid air, news poured in of unrest spreading to other parts of the country. Convoys of buses, cars and rickshaws festooned with flags of political parties careered through Karachi's main thoroughfares.

Tension has been simmering in Karachi for the past week, with rumours swirling round that Mr Musharraf had allowed conflicting rallies to go ahead to create the requisite level of disorder to justify the declaration of an emergency. The prelude to violence was familiar to Karachi, where hundreds of people were killed in ethnic violence in the 1990s.

Exacerbating the political furore in Karachi over the sacking of Mr Chaudhry is a decades-old and simmering feud between the MQM, a movement supported by the city's mohajir population who migrated from India at Partition in 1947, and ethnic Pathans, who were originally from Pakistan's North West Frontier province.

Opponents of the MQM claim that its actions yesterday were ordered in micro-detail by the movement's autocratic leader, via telephone, from Edgware in north London.

i6.tinypic.com/66o15av.jpg      
Lawyers surround suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry


Altaf Hussain wields great influence from afar over Karachi, a city of 15 million. Amid the chaos and bloodshed, the MQM chief addressed tens of thousands of his followers gathered along one of Karachi's main streets.

As his speech echoed over its audience, in other parts of the city gunmen from both heavily armed factions took up positions on rooftops and sprayed streets with automatic gunfire. Dozens of wounded were treated in hospitals.

Last night paramilitary troops were preparing to be deployed in the city as the possibility of a curfew being imposed grew.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=U2LRYNC1TKAKZQFIQMFSFFWAVC...


This could get really, really bad in a hurry!  Pakistan has nukes, and there is no telling what a radical Islamic government would do with nuclear weapons.  Israel could definitely be a target!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #114 - May 15th, 2007 at 2:27pm
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it is very sad yes, but they will only have peace when one side is completly wiped out.


...but then again they will probably just go for us capitalist pig-dogs after that.
  
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Reply #115 - May 17th, 2007 at 3:14am
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Quote:
Doctors Without Borders staffer plotted to kill Olmert
By YAAKOV KATZ
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A Palestinian from the Gaza Strip who works for the humanitarian organization Doctors Without Borders, has been arrested for allegedly plotting to assassinate Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) revealed Thursday.

Mazab Bashir, 25, from Deir el-Balah began working with Doctors Without Borders five years ago.

On April 19, he confessed during a Shin Bet interrogation that for months, he had been collecting intelligence on senior Israeli officials, including Olmert and a number of Knesset members.

Bashir met with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in September 2006, and said that the killing was meant to avenge the deaths of Palestinian civilians. He said that he collected information on the Internet to use to target MKs, but then realized that the MKs in question did not live in Jerusalem, the only Israeli city to which his permit granted him access.

Bashir also underwent arms training with the PFLP, and was picked to carry out the planned assassination.

According to the officials, after the doctor realized that the security surrounding Olmert was impenetrable, he began planning the assassination of other Israeli officials, including the head of the Israel Antiquities Authority in Jerusalem.

While the decision to target an archeologist may appear strange, the IAA recently found itself in the midst of a bitter struggle over excavations at the Mughrabi Bridge, near the Temple Mount compound.


This is an amazing article...I see no other news agencies reporting it though.  This would be like members of the UN going to Africa and giving the women injections laced with infertility drugs...oh wait that happened.

Still this is not a good thing.  If you have humanitarian orgs trying to kill people...I think they need to rethink their name.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #116 - Jul 9th, 2007 at 9:26am
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Report: Iran general gives nuclear info to CIA

By JPOST.COM STAFF


Ali-Reza Asghari, the Iranian general who went missing in Turkey nearly half a year ago, is currently being held in a secure US intelligence facility, it was reported on Sunday.

During his interrogation, Asghari gave over information on the running of the Iranian government and on the country's nuclear program, Yediot Aharonot reported.

Since Asghari's disappearance while on vacation in Istanbul in February, reports have circulated that the missing general had defected to a Western country, most likely the US. However, there has as yet been no confirmation of these reports.

According to Sunday's report, CIA agents contacted Asghari, who met them in Istanbul. Asghari even managed to get some of his family out of Iran and bring them with him to the US.

Asghari has since revealed new and relevant information about Iran's nuclear progress, saying that in addition to reactors and uranium enrichment facility centrifuges being built in the country, Iran has also developed the technology to enrich uranium with lasers.

Laser enrichment is a relatively old technique, but Iran has evidently added chemical enhancements that make the technology more advanced, the report said.

Asghari apparently acquired his knowledge during his time as a senior officer in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, who were often responsible for guarding the country's nuclear facilities. He was also a member of the Iranian security council.

If true, Asghari's information would lend credence to Western concerns regarding the increasing danger of Iran's nuclear program.


I think this is more justification than we had for Iraq.  Watch out, Iran, Bush still has two years left!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #117 - Jul 10th, 2007 at 8:50am
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Quote:
www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/07/10/pakistan.mosque/index.html#cnnSTCPhoto



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Eight Pakistani commandos and 50 student militants are dead after Pakistani security forces stormed an Islamabad mosque compound Tuesday morning, minutes after negotiations fell through between a government delegation and radical Islamic students inside, military sources said.


An army armored vehicle moves towards the Red Mosque in Islamabad, Pakistan on Tuesday.

Gunfire erupted moments after an announcement from the government's chief negotiator, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, that talks to end the standoff had failed. As dawn broke over the Pakistani capital, heavy black smoke rose from the site of the mosque and the death toll began to rise.

Dozens of ambulances were parked near the site, waiting for the area to be safe enough to enter.

"After 11 hours of negotiations, we are deeply disappointed that the talks did not succeed," Hussain said, adding that Abdul Rashid Ghazi -- the cleric leading the stand-off inside -- said "no" to every offer from the government.

Fifteen commandos and 20 militants have been wounded in fresh fighting, the military said. Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad told CNN that 50 militants had surrendered by late morning.

Twenty children escaped the Lal Masjid, or Red Mosque, as fighting began around 4 a.m. Tuesday (11 p.m. GMT Monday), a Pakistani army spokesman said, adding that the children were safe and in the custody of the Pakistan Rangers, a paramilitary organization.

Nine hours later, about 20 women left the mosque, CNN's Syed Mohsin Naqvi said. The fate of scores more hostages held by the militant students is still unknown.

The week-long standoff between Pakistani security forces and the students has left at least 77 people dead with government forces facing heavy resistance from students seeking Taliban-style rule in Islamabad, an army spokesman said.

"The security forces are facing stiff resistance from the militants, but we are making tangible progress," said Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad of the Pakistani armed forces.

Arshad said the operation was aimed at clearing the militants out of the mosque, and he expected the operation would last four to five hours, adding that the militants were barricaded in several parts of the compound, including the basement.

"The militants are quite well armed," he said. "They have small arms, they have rockets, they have grenades."
Pakistani Information Minister Tariq Azim Khan told CNN that there were 300 hostages inside the Lal Masjid, or Red Mosque, and the government hoped to get them out safely. Watch Pakistan's interior minister discuss the mosque raid

"We have tried our very best to settle this matter amicably," he said. "... We have no choice but to use force, which we always maintained as a last option."

Khan said that between 40 and 60 "hardcore militants" were inside the mosque.

"Hopefully this operation can be concluded pretty shortly," he said. "We will try to keep casualties at a minimum."

Tensions had been simmering for months between police and the students at mosque, who are blamed for a string of recent kidnappings of civilians, Chinese nationals and Pakistani police.

The government has been investigating the activities of the mosque, whose students who are demanding that Taliban-style rule be imposed in the city.

Two students trying to surrender Friday were shot dead by other students in the mosque, intelligence sources said, but gave no additional details of how the shootings occurred.

Ghazi claimed more than 300 people have been killed since Tuesday, but an interior ministry spokesman said the ministry completely rejects that claim.

The violence began Tuesday when about 150 militant Islamic students attacked a police checkpoint close to the mosque. Street clashes quickly erupted, with police firing tear gas at the students and the students fighting back with guns and sticks. They then took refuge in the mosque and an adjoining women's seminary, which the troops subsequently surrounded.

More than 1,200 people, mainly students from the mosque's two Islamic schools, have already fled the compound, but officials don't know exactly how many remain.

Ghazi has said there are 1,900 still in the compound. Meanwhile his brother, Maulana Abdul Aziz, said there are only about 850 inside. Other intelligence sources have told CNN that there are about 800 to 900.

Aziz, the top cleric at the Red Mosque, was captured Wednesday while trying to slip out of the mosque disguised in a burqa -- the head-to-toe covering worn by some Muslim women.

At least 50 of those still inside are well-armed hard-liners, Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao said Friday.

Although conditions inside the mosque are unknown, friends and relatives outside the mosque are worried for their loved ones.

"I ask these people to leave my son. We are even ready to pay. My son! My son!" said Mozamil Shah, the father of one young boy still holed up inside the mosque.

In efforts to oust the group, officials have cut off water, gas and electricity to the compound. Officials also disconnected 12 telephones Sunday, but an Interior Ministry official told CNN they had no way of shutting down cell phone service from within the mosque.


We never took over a mosque when we were in school.

-b0b
(...thinks the terrorists were simply participating in "Take Your Child to Jihad" day.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #118 - Jul 10th, 2007 at 1:41pm
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Isn't it great though that we live in a country where we don't have to worry about the military storming in and taking us.  One of my professors put it this way, "The military identifies targets and kills them, police have to think more on what to do".  However, with the militarization of the police continuing I don't know if that will be true for much longer.  For example, the police like to refer to anyone not police as "civilians".  Guess what boys and girls...police are civilians too!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #119 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 3:25pm
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Breaking!

Quote:
CNN.com
The House of Representatives voted 223-201 Thursday to require most U.S. troops to leave Iraq by April 1, 2008.

President Bush vetoed a war-spending bill with a similar withdrawal date in May, and has threatened to spike any new effort to set a timetable for a U.S. pullout. His Republican allies in the House said the new measure has no chance of passage.

But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a California Democrat, said Thursday's mixed report on the progress of war shows it's time for American troops to come home.

"President Bush continues to urge patience, but what is needed -- and what the American people are demanding -- is a new direction," she said.


I've also heard it may be a 120-day withdrawal, which would put it in mid-November.  It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

-b0b
(...attached a picture of his plan for Iraq.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #120 - Aug 7th, 2007 at 5:48pm
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This is an interesting video about the creation of Israel and the BS the Palestinians (and mass media) keep spewing...

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

It's about eight minutes long.

-b0b
(...found it eye opening.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #121 - Aug 7th, 2007 at 7:06pm
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That was one of the best made and best presented docs I've seen on the subject.  Very concise and informative.  I didn't know all about the creation esp with Churchill giving 90% of the land to the Arabs in the 40s.

Very interesting.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #122 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 1:28pm
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Temple Institute Announces: High Priest's Crown is Ready!
by Hillel Fendel

(IsraelNN.com) The Temple Institute in Jerusalem announces the completion of the Tzitz, the High Priest's headplate - now ready for use in the Holy Temple.

The tzitz is made of pure gold, was fashioned over the course of a more than a year by the craftsmen of the Temple Institute, and is ready to be worn by the High Priest in the rebuilt Holy Temple in Jerusalem.

The words "Holy for G-d" are engraved on the headplate, in accordance with Exodus 28:36.

Rabbi Chaim Richman, International Director of the Temple Institute, explained to Arutz-7 that until it can actually be used, the tzitz will be on view in the Institute's permanent exhibition display, together with other vessels and priestly garments fashioned for use in the Holy Temple by the Institute.

Legal Aspects: Impurity and Hekdesh
Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, Director of the Institute, explained some of the Halakhic [Jewish legal] aspects of the fashioning of the vessels for the Temple. "For one thing," he said, "they are made in impurity - for now we are impure, and will remain impure until we are able to have a Red Heifer whose ashes can be used in the Torah-prescribed purification ceremony. If no Red Heifer is available, then the High Priest must even serve in the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur in a state of impurity."

Asked whether the fact that the vessels are dedicated for the Temple does not render them hekdesh (consecrated) and therefore forbidden for any other use, Rabbi Ariel explained, "There are two stages. First of all, we make it very clear to the donors and to the craftsmen that the ultimate purpose of these vessels is not to be used for exhibitions or the like, but rather for the fulfillment of Torah commandments in the Holy Temple. They must know this in advance. However, to gain the actual status of hekdesh, we similarly make it clear that this does not happen until the vessel is actually brought in to the Temple Mount for use in the Temple. This means that someone can try on and measure the headplate, for example, without worrying that he is benefiting in any way from something that has been consecrated to the Temple."

Menorah Moves Closer to Temple Mount
Rabbi Richman noted that in less than two weeks from now, on Rosh Chodesh Tevet, the famous Menorah (candelabrum) - suitable for use in the Holy Temple, familiar to visitors to the Cardo section of the Old City of Jerusalem - will be relocated to the landing of the wide staircase that leads down from the Jewish Quarter to the Western Wall. It will be protected inside the same type of glass structure that now houses it.

The new tzitz is an improvement on one made several years ago, in that it has a backpiece, in accordance with some commentators and the account of Josephus. In addition, it has a locking mechansim so that it will not slip off the Priest's head, and can be adjusted to fit heads of different sizes. The old one will be preserved, of course as a "spare," in keeping with the Mishnaic account that several models of various vessels were kept in the Temple, in case the need arose to replace one.

Asked what project they're working on at present, Rabbi Richman said, "We have begun work on 120 sets of garments for 'regular' priests, not the High Priest. This involves special thread from India, etc. In addition, we have begun work on architectural blueprints for the Third Temple, including cost projection, modern supplies, electricity, plumbing, computers, etc."

Bringing G-d Into Our World
"At present," Rabbi Richman explained, "people are in despair, and wonder if we're not dreaming futilely while around us our leaders are planning to give the country away. We say to them: It appears that those who went to Annapolis are the dreamers, thinking that their efforts to make peace will succeed, or that the public is with them in their efforts to give away our Jerusalem, our Temple Mount, and other national historic assets."

"We are now approaching the holiday of Chanukah," Rabbi Richman continued, "which is the holiday that commemorates the re-dedication of the Holy Temple. We're not just building beautiful vessels; we're interested in granting G-d the dwelling place that He wants in this world; the Temple is not merely a building, but a way of bringing G-d into our lives in a very real way. And that is what we aim to do. This tzitz is G-d's Chanukah present to us, and our Chanukah gift to the Jewish People."


You can see a video of the crown here.

This is pretty crazy!  Once the find a red heifer (and they're trying like crazy to breed one), things are really going to heat up quickly.

For those of you that follow eschatology, events are coming along at breakneck speed.  Politically speaking, all Israel needs is is a conservative government and we could be a few years away from Jewish blood sacrifices on the Temple Mount.  Imagine the fallout (literally) between two of the big three world religions when that happens!

-b0b
(...will keep an eye on this one.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #123 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 2:07pm
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I may be wrong here...but wouldn't the Jews have to rebuild the temple in order to do proper sacrifices?  Wouldn't this also mean the Dome of The Rock has to be moved or torn down and the new temple rebuilt?

It's sad for me to see these Jews who think they are just getting by based on their lineage (by that I mean going to Heaven).  Most Jews don't even follow the OT laws of sacrifice so that they can be made clean.  E.G., no sacrificing animals, no alms giving, etc.  I know that many Jews can't even tell you how to get right with God.  It's a sad thing to see them not only reject Jesus but to even turn away from their own law to nothing but lineage.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #124 - Dec 3rd, 2007 at 2:13pm
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Well, they can't actually sacrifice animals to God right now because there hasn't been a purified priest in nearly two millenia.  That's where the red heifer comes in.  Once a perfect, unblemished red heifer is found, they can sacrifice it and use its blood to purify the priesthood.  Once that's done, the Jews can start bringing their animal sacrifices to the Temple Mount the same way they did in Bible times.

I'm sure PETA is going to crap themselves when that happens.

Either way, you're absolutely right.  God has received His perfect sacrifice, and all of the animals in the world aren't going to appease him.

-b0b
(...thinks they're as legalistic as ever.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #125 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 12:07pm
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Benazir Bhutto Assassinated At Rally

Updated:16:52, Thursday December 27, 2007
Pakistan has announced three days of mourning after opposition leader Benazir Bhutto was shot dead at a political rally.
The gunman then detonated a bomb, killing at least 15 of her supporters. Many more were injured in the suicide blast.
Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown said: "She has been assassinated by cowards afraid of democracy. This attack strengthens our resolve that terrorists will not win."
Bhutto...minutes before her death
Bhutto...minutes before her death

Ms Bhutto, 54, was shot in the chest and neck as she got into her car after her speech to thousands in Rawalpindi.

The former prime minister was unconscious as she was taken to Rawalpindi General Hospital and died soon after.

"She has been martyred," said Rehman Malik, a spokesman for her party.

Some of her supporters smashed windows and doors at the hospital, chanting: "Dog, Musharraf, Dog."

It is the first major attack since President General Pervez Musharraf lifted emergency rule two weeks ago.

He has appealed for calm in the country and declared three days of mourning.

Sky News Asia correspondent Alex Crawford said the country's January 8 elections would now "most likely be postponed or cancelled".

She added: "The entire political scene in Pakistan will be torn apart. She will become a martyr in many people's eyes.

"This is an end of a dream for them. I really don't think she ever thought it would come to this."
At least 15 others killed in attack
At least 15 others killed in attack

Rehman Malik, Ms Bhutto's security advisor, said: "We repeatedly informed the government to provide her proper security and appropriate equipment including jammers, but they paid no heed to our requests".

But Pakistan's ambassador in the US rejected the accusations that more could have been done to protect her.

He added: "This will only improve the Pakistan people's resolve to fight extremism."

He also said President Musharraf has spoken to Britain's PM about the attack.

Shabbas Sharif, the brother of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, said: "I'm shellshocked. It's very bad for this country. Whoever has done this has done the biggest disservice to Pakistan."

"The government must resign, Musharaf must go home, they must hold a very transparent inquiry into Benazir's killing."

US President George Bush is expected to make an announcement about the assassination later.

A spokesman for the White House said: "We condemn the acts of violence which took place today in Pakistan".




This could really destabilize Pakistan, which is the last thing we need in an already tumultuous Middle East.

-b0b
(...keeps his eyes on this one.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #126 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 12:20pm
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A woman not covering her face?  Why use a gun, stone her!


Quote:
US President George Bush is expected to make an announcement about the assassination later.


Let me guess, it will go like, "well that sucks, everyone we care about still alive?  Good."
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #127 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 1:05pm
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We go after and take down countries who don't even have WMDs or even a good military.  But when it comes to helping nations that are just able to wipe us off the face of the Earth if they get in a little spat...nahh leave them alone.

Wouldn't this be a perfect time for some international body to help negotiate and find a peaceful solution to end hostilities to step in?

If only the UN wasn't there just to regulate war and take out national sovereignty.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #128 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 1:15pm
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X wrote on Dec 27th, 2007 at 1:05pm:
Wouldn't this be a perfect time for some international body to help negotiate and find a peaceful solution to end hostilities to step in?


The only "international body" that is going to negotiate a peaceful solution in the Middle East is God.

-b0b
(...!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #129 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 1:44pm
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Yes...however where you talk about the real world solution I'm talking about the fantasy world of "if everything was suppose to be the way it was without any evilness and greed" then my idea would work just fine.

....

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #130 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 1:51pm
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Yeah, and gumdrop fairies would fly out of Spanky's butt when he farted.

-b0b
(...or something.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #131 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 2:02pm
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Whoa, when the hell did I come to play in this subject.

And that is a fantasy world, in the real world bob has stuffed all those fairies in his pooper and there isn't much chance of them getting out anytime soon.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #132 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 2:06pm
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Ohhhh!  THOSE kind of fairies...I thought we were talking about the non-magical kind!

Tongue

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #133 - Jan 10th, 2008 at 1:56pm
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President Bush warned Iran of "serious consequences" if it meddles again with U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf, opening a Mideast peacemaking mission Wednesday on an ominous note. He told Israel to dismantle unauthorized settlement outposts and demanded that the Palestinians halt rocket attacks from areas controlled by Hamas Islamic militants.

Bush, on his first visit as president to Israel, acknowledged widespread doubts about whether he can break through decades of distrust to achieve his goal of a major peace agreement by the end of his presidency in January, 2009.

"I'm under no illusions," Bush said at a news conference with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. "It's going to be hard work."

Unpopular at home, Bush got an extremely warm welcome in staunch ally Israel. With his presidency slipping away and skepticism about the seriousness of his commitment to Mideast peacemaking, Bush hopes an accord would improve a legacy tarnished by an unpopular Iraq war, economic anxieties and other problems.

Already a troubling issue for Bush, Iran jumped back into the spotlight Sunday when Iranian boats harassed and provoked three American Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz. U.S. officials said Iran threatened to explode the vessels, but the incident ended peacefully.

Bush said "all options are on the table" to protect U.S. ships. He said the Iranian boats "were very provocative and it was a dangerous gesture on their part. ... And they know our position, and that is: There will be serious consequences if they attack our ships, pure and simple. And my advice to them is don't do it."

Bush already was on the defensive about Iran because a new U.S. intelligence report contradicted White House assertions that Tehran was building a nuclear weapon. The National Intelligence Estimate found Iran halted its program in 2003 under international pressure.

Iran is a particularly sensitive subject here because Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for Israel's destruction, and Israelis wonder whether Bush has the resolve to deal with Tehran, especially in light of the new intelligence.

Saying he still regarded Iran as a dangerous threat, Bush said, "We'll continue to keep the pressure on the Iranians. And I believe we can solve this problem diplomatically."

After a red-carpet airport arrival in Tel Aviv, Bush flew by helicopter to Jerusalem for talks with Olmert and Israeli President Shimon Peres, who cautioned that peace negotiations "may be slow, but the progress can be sweet."

Olmert said Israel would not accept a peace agreement unless there is a halt to rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip, controlled by Islamic militants dedicated to Israel's destruction. The U.S.-backed Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, wields authority in the West Bank but not in Gaza, meaning the Palestinian population is effectively split between two governing entities.

"There will be no peace unless terror is stopped," Olmert told Bush. "And terror will have to be stopped everywhere. He said that "Gaza must be part of the package and that as long as there will be terror from Gaza, it will be very, very hard to reach any peaceful understanding between us and the Palestinians."

The threat to Israel was underscored Wednesday when Palestinian militants in the Gaza bombarded southern Israel with rocket and mortar fire.

On Thursday, Bush will fly to the West Bank and question Abbas about just that.

"As to the rockets, my first question is going to be to President Abbas, `What do you intend to do about them?'" Bush said.

"Because ultimately, in order for there to be the existence of a state, there has to be a firm commitment by a Palestinian government to deal with extremists and terrorists who might be willing to use Palestinian territory as a launching pad into Israel."

Stephen Hadley, Bush's national security adviser, sounded pessimistic about Hamas joining the peace process.

"Nobody, unfortunately, is very optimistic that they will make that choice," Hadley said. "Hamas came to power in election; it will have to submit itself at some point to the people of Gaza in terms of their approval of the job they have done. And at this point, it's a pretty depressing situation in Hamas—in Gaza for all those people who live there."

The administration set low expectations for Bush's eight-day Mideast journey, which also includes stops in Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Bush said it would be unproductive for him to "butt in and actually dictate the end result of the agreement."

But that did not stop him from telling Israel what to do about settlements.

"In terms of outposts, yes, they ought to go," Bush said. "Look, I mean, we've been talking about it for four years. The agreement was, `Get rid of outposts, illegal outposts,' and they ought to go.'"

Israel has established some 120 settlements in the West Bank, which are home to about 270,000 Israelis. In addition, there are more than 100 outposts, most of which are tiny encampments—built by hardline activists without authorization—meant to serve as the seeds of future settlements.

The U.S.-backed peace plan known as the "road map" calls on Israel to remove dozens of outposts and freeze settlement activity, including construction in existing settlements.

Olmert repeated his pledge not to build any new settlements, but indicated Israel will continue building in major settlement blocs and east Jerusalem.

Bush was silent on Olmert's claims to the settlement blocs and east Jerusalem. This was disappointing to the Palestinians, who say all settlements are illegal.

The Palestinians want all of the West Bank and east Jerusalem for their future state. Israel wants to keep east Jerusalem and the large settlements in the West Bank under a final peace agreement.

Bush offered support to Israel on one of the core issues in the conflict. "The alliance between our two nations helps guarantee Israel's security as a Jewish state," Bush said.

Bush has referred to Israel as Jewish state in the past but the reference—here in the region—had special significance. Palestinians oppose the term, saying it rules out the right of Palestinian refugees to return to lost properties in Israel.


After the Hormuz incident, I think Bush is looking for any excuse to send our soldiers next door.  If that happens, the existing Middle East mess is going to look like a schoolyard rumble by comparison.  He's only got a year left and you know he wants to take out Iran, so now is the time.

On the other hand, Iran seems to be doing everything in their power to get the war started, too.  The common folk in Iran aren't very fond of the current regime and the pressure is building to remove them from power.  The only way for Ahmadinejad and the religious rulers to divert that pressure away from them is to give the people an outside enemy.  Guess who that is?

I hope they don't take the first shot.  It wouldn't be very prudent to start shooting first.  They are already fighting a proxy war in Iraq, but with a blatant and overt action against the US, Bush would pretty much have free reign to do as he sees fit.  Even the most ardent hippies would have a hard time complaining about US involvement in Iran if the Iranian government attacks first.

-b0b
(...so much for unilateralism.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #134 - Jan 10th, 2008 at 2:14pm
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Nothing brings people together like a common enemy. (wes' mom anyone?)

I think we should just stop letting bush spend money...not fire him, just take his ability to spend money.  The problem will correct itself.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #135 - Jan 10th, 2008 at 2:37pm
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Ya Iran has 2 speed boats that are in sight of US warships and Bush is ready to call it an attack.  Let's see how we'd like it if China parked a huge Navy just outside our coastal waters.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #136 - Jan 10th, 2008 at 3:05pm
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X wrote on Jan 10th, 2008 at 2:37pm:
Ya Iran has 2 speed boats that are in sight of US warships and Bush is ready to call it an attack.


No offense, but that's patently false.  What happened in the Straights was far more than "two speed boats in sight of US warships."  Have you watched the video?

The boats were weaving back and forth less than 200 yards from multiple US warships, dropping unidentified packages into the water and threatening to blow the ships up.  The fact the Navy didn't open fire just blows my mind.

Have you already forgotten about the USS Cole?

-b0b
(...thinks we still owe Iran for '79.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #137 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 12:54pm
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Did you hear the audio?
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #138 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 1:01pm
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Would it have helped any?  Unless bob or you knows arabic (or whichever dialect they feel like using this week) you are trusting some one else to translate what they are saying.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #139 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 2:41pm
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Ya look at all those great Bin Laden videos that come out and we find out 6 months later...ya...that's not what he said at all.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #140 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 3:44pm
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First of all, they aren't speaking Arabic, they're speaking Farsi.  Iran is a Persian nation and they still speak a modern dialect of the Persian language (Dari).

Second, there are enough Farsi speakers out there to have called BS if the US translation was completely off the mark.  I encourage you to find such a person.

-b0b
(...Occam's Razor, folks.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #141 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 3:56pm
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Time for me to just assume some language I didn't know was arabic instead of saying crazy made up space language and move on to another subject: 7 minutes.

Time for bob to wikipedia and google his way to finding what the correct language in hopes of sounding smrt (yes intentional, nazi): 2 hours 43 minutes.

Now how do I send a kick in the nuts through the mail?
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #142 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 5:36pm
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Didn't the navy say that the transmission might have come from a ham radio from somewhere else and not the boats?
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #143 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 8:21am
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Radios aren't made of ham!


...had to post something.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #144 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 8:32am
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spanky wrote on Jan 15th, 2008 at 3:56pm:
...in hopes of sounding smrt (yes intentional, nazi): 2 hours 43 minutes.


You forgot to capitalize Nazi.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #145 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 8:35am
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MediaMaster wrote on Jan 15th, 2008 at 5:36pm:
Didn't the navy say that the transmission might have come from a ham radio from somewhere else and not the boats?


I didn't read that, although I suppose it is possible (no matter how unlikely.)  Regardless of where the transmission came from, the people on those boats are damn lucky they aren't sleeping with the fishes right now.  Getting that close to a warship in an already precarious situation is just retarded.

Besides, what is the likelihood that somebody made a radio transmission with such an ominous transmission at the exact same time that boats were pulling their shenanigans?  I've got a better chance of getting Wes's Mom pregnant from another state.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #146 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 1:42pm
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I've got a better chance of getting Wes's Mom pregnant from another state.


Well then I guess it's pretty likely seeing as Wes' mom is the size of many states.

X
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #147 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 2:08pm
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You would have thought we would have lost interest in mocking wes' mom by now since wes is gone.


...but then again they thought the titanic was unsinkable and look how that turned out.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #148 - Jan 16th, 2008 at 3:15pm
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spanky wrote on Jan 16th, 2008 at 2:08pm:
...but then again they thought the titanic was unsinkable and look how that turned out.


Considering the topic, that was an incredibly apt analogy.  Bravo!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #149 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 2:54pm
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What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think? uh, here's the site in question: Middle East conflict
« Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2008 at 4:06am by AlexZello »  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #150 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 6:54pm
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I give up...who are you?

Are you friends with briney?  If so I am sorry, he most likely asked to 'draw' you.  We currently have a class action lawsuit going against him but it isn't working.

In closing, bob is a homo.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #151 - Feb 16th, 2008 at 7:15pm
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Hello, Alex, and welcome to the board.   Smiley

Shoher is definitely a neo-conservative.  Although I don't necessarily disagree with his views on Israel retaking the entirety of the promised land, I'm not sure that I agree with his proposed methods.

I've downloaded his book, so I'll take a look at it before passing judgment.  The Middle East situation is incredibly complex, and a handful of talking points in the media is not much to judge a man by.

Again, welcome aboard!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #152 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 10:51am
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Quote:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C09A4C6C-A2D0-4616-9118-0019AB338CD4.htm


TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2008
12:22 MECCA TIME, 9:22 GMT

Pakistan ruling party concedes poll
Pakistan's newspapers heralded the
defeat of Musharraf's allies [AFP]

Pakistan's ruling party has conceded electoral defeat, as opposition parties won enough seats to form a new government that could threaten the rule of Pervez Musharraf, the Pakistani president, according to partial results.

Tariq Azeem, spokesman for the Pakistan Muslim League-Q (PML-Q), which backed Musharraf announced on Tuesday that the party would "accept the verdict of the nation".

"We officially concede defeat," he said.

Several of the leading PML-Q candidates, including its chief, lost their seats in Monday's election and unofficial results, announced on state television, showed they could not attain a parliamentary majority.


"This is the basic spirit of democracy," Azeem said. "We believe the elections were free and fair and everybody must accept the decision for the betterment of Pakistan."

Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, head of the PML-Q, said that his party accepted the result and "will sit on opposition benches".

With counting in from 257 constituencies, PML-Q and its allies had taken a total of 57 seats.

The Pakistan People's party (PPP), the party of Benazir Bhutto, the opposition leader assassinated in December last year, had 85 seats, according to preliminary results.

The Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) faction of Nawaz Sharif, a former prime minister, had 65 seats, with PML-Q, smaller parties and independents taking the rest, state television said.

Full results were not expected until late on Tuesday or early Wednesday.

Musharraf threatened

Musharraf has said he would work with the new government regardless of which party wins.


Pakistan vote: At a glance

- Pakistan has 81 million registered voters, out of a population of 160 million people.

- Voters choose 272 members of the National Assembly, or lower house of parliament, for a five-year term.

- Another 60 seats are reserved for women and 10 for religious minorities.

- There are 106 parties, 15 of which were represented in the last parliament.

- More than 60,000 polling stations were set up across the country.

- Key issues include restoration of a full civilian government, reinstatement of sacked judges, rising militancy, economy and high unemployment.

"I will give them full co-operation as president, whatever is my role," he said after voting in Rawalpindi.

But with the support of smaller groups and independent candidates, the opposition could now gain the two-thirds majority in parliament needed to impeach the president.

Musharraf's popularity suffered last year following his decision to impose emergency rule, purge the judiciary, jail political opponents and curtail press freedoms.

Musharraf has also supported the US in its so-called "war on terror", sanctioning Pakistani military operations against al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters in northwest Pakistan where it borders Afghanistan.

By contrast, Sharif and others have called for dialogue with the fighters and have criticised military operations in the area because of their impact on civilians.

Electoral violence

Opposition parties had feared the polls would be rigged, but analysts from Washington-based Strategic Forecasting said the elections "seem to have been decently free and fair".

Sarwar Bari, of the non-profit Free and Fair Elections Network, said his group's 20,000 election observers reported a voter turnout of about 35 per cent, the same as in the 1997 election and the lowest in Pakistan's history.

Ayaz Baig, the election commissioner in Punjab, estimated the turnout there to be at between 30 per cent and 40 per cent, slightly lower than in the 2002 election.

In Baluchistan and Sindh provinces, turnout was estimated at about 35 per cent, officials said.

Although fear and possible apathy kept millions of voters at home on Monday, Talat Hussein from AAJ TV said turnout was similar to previous years.

"Going by previous trends in Pakistan it is not that disappointing. At the end of the day, the voting did pick up and 42 per cent is not exactly a big disappointment," Hussein told Al Jazeera.

The PPP said 15 of its members had been killed and hundreds more injured in scattered violence "deliberately engineered to deter voters".

In northwest Pakistan on Tuesday, witnesses said more than 2,000 tribesmen blocked the main highway from Peshawar to the Afghan border, protesting that their favoured candidate had been defeated by electoral fraud.

At least 24 people were killed in election-related violence, mostly in Punjab province.


Alright!  Now Pakistan has an America-hating, pro-Taliban government with nukes!  Ain't that special!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #153 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:14am
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Me:  What are we going to do?

Bush:  Same thing I do every night spanky.  Try to take over the world!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #154 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:25am
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Alright!  Now Pakistan has an America-hating, pro-Taliban government with nukes!  Ain't that special!


So basically they've become just like every other country we've meddled in the affairs of.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #155 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:40pm
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Shhh stewie!

If you keep saying stuff like that people are going to start thinking some of this might be our fault...
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #156 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:50pm
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I think we all need to put our heads in the sand.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #157 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 3:32pm
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Wait, if I bury your head in the sand...who is going to be left to bury mine?!?!


...flawed logic!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #158 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 12:40pm
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Pakistan blocks YouTube over cartoons
By Reuters
Published: February 24, 2008, 9:30 AM PST


ISLAMABAD--Pakistan ordered local Internet service providers to block access to the popular YouTube Web site because of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad that have outraged many Muslims, an industry official said Sunday.

The cartoons, published in Danish newspapers in 2005 and again earlier this month, angered Muslims because of their depiction of the Prophet Mohammad.

"They asked us to ban it immediately...and the order says the ban will continue until further notice," said Wahaj-us-Siraj, convener of the Association of Pakistan Internet Service Providers.

Publication of the cartoons led to protests and rioting in many Muslim countries, including Pakistan, in which at least 50 people were killed and three Danish embassies attacked.

Several Danish newspapers reprinted one of the cartoons earlier this month after police in Copenhagen uncovered a plot by two Tunisians and a Dane of Moroccan origin to kill the cartoonist, sparking further protests around the world.

Attempts to access YouTube in Islamabad on Sunday were met with a generic error message saying the site was unavailable.

"Users are quite upset. They're screaming at ISPs which can't do anything," Siraj said.

"The government has valid reason for that, but they have to find a better way of doing it. If we continue blocking popular Web sites, people will stop using the Internet."


Bahaha, they blocked YouTube!  There will be rioting in the streets!  The rivers will run red with the blood of Pakistan's network engineers.

-b0b
(...should find the video in question.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #159 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 9:56am
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I'm wondering what you guys think of this little blurb...


Quote:
US Congressman David Weldon (R., Florida), who visited Israel last week, said Israel should strike back at Gaza in one fell swoop. "During World War II," Weldon told the Makor Rishon newspaper, "the U.S. attacked Japan mercilessly. Despite the ethical problems, everyone now agrees that this caused Japan to surrender, thus saving many lives, including Japanese lives. This is the reason I think Israel should hit the Palestinians with one fell swoop, thus defeating them. Otherwise, this cruel situation of today will continue year after year, decade after decade."

"Just like parents have to protect their children," Weldon said, "a state must protect its citizens, especially those who are threatened such as those in Sderot. If a country would attack the U.S., I would support turning that country into dust. If it’s right for the U.S., it's right for Israel."


Do you think he has a point?  Personally, I would fully support Israel rocking Gaza back into the stone age (not that it would be a big step).  If you shoot rokcets at me, I'll shoot even bigger rockets back at you.

-b0b
(...discuss!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #160 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 12:26pm
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Can we just sell missiles to both sides?

Help with that pesky little deficit thing we have going on.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #161 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 1:21pm
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Can we just sell missiles to both sides?


What you mean do what we've been doing for the last 40 years?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #162 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 2:52pm
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Free missiles for EVERYONE!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #163 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 3:21pm
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If only everyone loved playing with tubular objects as much as jim.


Zing!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #164 - Feb 27th, 2008 at 3:48pm
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It worked for Mario.  He was always playing with tubes, and look at how good he ended up.  He got friggin' loaded and got the princess.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #165 - Mar 6th, 2008 at 1:09pm
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Security Cabinet Decides: End All Rocket Attacks from Gaza
by Hana Levi Julian

The Security Cabinet decided in a longer-than-usual meeting Wednesday to put an end to the rocket and mortar attacks fired by Gaza terrorists at Israel.

The resolution adopted by the cabinet included a decision to destroy the Hamas regime in Gaza, while continuing to negotiate a final status agreement with Palestinian Authority Chairman and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas.

The resolution included a decision to coordinate with Egypt the efforts to topple Hamas. The cabinet also expressed its determination "to avoid a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, to the extent that the matter depends on Israel."

It is the first time that a formal decision has been taken to completely eradicate missile attacks launched from Gaza.

There were no details on how the IDF would carry out the orders or on what the soldiers will and will not be allowed to do.

More than 180 rockets have been fired at southern Israel in the past seven days, including at least 20 long-range 122 mm Iranian "Grad" missiles.

On Wednesday, Israeli authorities discovered chemicals used for making explosives just one hour after Israel opened up Gaza crossings for shipments of humanitarian goods. The chemicals were discovered in a sealed container and were intended for use in Kassam rockets.

Officials have also noted in the past that much of the "humanitarian aid" sent into to Gaza never reached the residents for whom it was donated. On several occasions, IDF soldiers discovered bomb-making ingredients packed in sacks marked "sugar" and other donated food supplies waiting to pass through the border crossings from Israel into Gaza, most recently on Wednesday.

According to sources in Ramallah, the oil-rich Gulf state of Qatar has been donating millions of dollars per month to help relieve the poverty suffered by Gaza residents – but Hamas operatives have stolen much of it to purchase advanced weaponry.

The aid is reportedly meant to strengthen Abbas, who is considered to be a "moderate" force in PA affairs despite the numerous terror attacks carried out by Fatah's Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades terrorist group.

The PA population elected the Hamas terrorist organization to lead the government in a landslide victory two years ago, although Abbas, who is leader of the rival Fatah faction, remained as PA Chairman.

The two factions spent more than a year fighting for control of the PA in a bloody civil war that ended in June 2007 with Hamas taking over Gaza. According to the Foreign Ministry, 1,018 rockets and 937 mortar shells have been fired at Sderot and other communities in the western Negev since Hamas conquered Gaza.

Abbas and his Fatah faction retained control over Judea and Samaria, but have been unable, or unwilling, to restrain terrorists in the region from initiating attacks on Israeli civilians.


What was that sound?  Was that the sound of a can of whoop-ass being opened?  Yes, I think it was!

This is going to leave a mark.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #166 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 9:00am
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Ventura: Will he or won’t he?
March 14, 12:53 AM

To hear Jesse Ventura tell it, he’s either out to become president or an expatriate.

In the opening to his fourth book, due out April 1, the former wrestler and governor of Minnesota writes: “As I begin to write this book, I’m facing probably the most monumental decision of my 56 years on this planet. Will I run for president of the United States, as an independent, in 2008? Or will I stay as far away from the fray as possible, in a place with no electricity, on a remote beach in Mexico?”

Throughout the book, called “Don’t Start the Revolution Without Me!,” Ventura seems to go back and forth on the question, pro and con:

Pro: “My outrage knows few bounds. … I can’t live with this apathy. I can’t tell myself it’s not happening.”

Con: “Psychologically, I need to break away from the United States. I also felt it was time in my life to go on an adventure. … And I found that, even in the 21st century, you can still be something of a Kit Carson,” the renowned 19th-century frontiersman.

Pro: He details a conversation he had in Mexico with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about running together on an independent, third-party ticket.

Con: His wife, Terry, says she refuses to be first lady of anything again.

Pro: WWE Wrestling Chairman Vince McMahon told Ventura he’d back his bid “100 percent, with everything I’ve got.”

Con: The epilogue of the book imagines eight months of 2008 headlines, as Ventura decides to run on a “WWE independent ticket.” Ventura envisions “shoving McMahon off to the side” and announcing his candidacy before 70,000 fans at the 24th annual WrestleMania. Which must mean he can’t be serious.


Wow, this guy is threatening to turn the 2008 presidential elections into the 2003 California gubernatorial elections.  What's next, a pr0n-star announcing their candidacy?

-b0b
(...wonders if Arianna Huffington will jump back into the fray?)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #167 - Mar 17th, 2008 at 2:35pm
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www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17532514.htm

Source: Reuters
MITROVICA, Kosovo, March 17 (Reuters) - Serbs attacked a U.N. convoy carrying Serb detainees from a raid in Kosovo on Monday, enabling several detainees to escape, a Reuters witness said.

The attack occurred after U.N. police stormed the main U.N. court in northern Kosovo, retaking it from Serbs who had forcibly occupied the building three days earlier. Dozens of Serbs were arrested in the raid.


Wow, I wonder how the UN will respond to this?  Maybe if they really get whipped up in a fury, they'll send the Serbs a harshly worded letter.

-b0b
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Reply #168 - Mar 17th, 2008 at 2:48pm
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Woa now...let's not get out of hand here.  For the UN to send a harshly worded letter they'd have to come into work, park illegally, find out what the heck has happened in the world, then they would have to appoint people to become a choosing committee, then they would have to filibuster until Kosovo becomes the supreme power of the world.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #169 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 9:27am
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ALESSANDRA RIZZO, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.

For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.

He said that Catholics accounted for 17.4 percent of the world population — a stable percentage — while Muslims were at 19.2 percent.

"It is true that while Muslim families, as is well known, continue to make a lot of children, Christian ones on the contrary tend to have fewer and fewer," the monsignor said.

Formenti said that the data refer to 2006. The figures on Muslims were put together by Muslim countries and then provided to the United Nations, he said, adding that the Vatican could only vouch for its own data.

When considering all Christians and not just Catholics, Christians make up 33 percent of the world population, Formenti said.

Spokesmen for the Vatican and the United Nations did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment Sunday.


It's interesting that Catholicism, a single sect of Christianity, is comparing itself to the totality of Islam.  You'd think they would just break down Islam into it's varying factions (Sunni, Shiite, etc.) and still claim they were the biggest bad-asses on the street.

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #170 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 10:33am
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When considering all Christians and not just Catholics, Christians make up 33 percent of the world population, Formenti said.


Seems like the other Christians don't count to him. Ha!
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #171 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 12:05pm
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Well this Pope has redeclared that if you aren't Catholic then you aren't a Christian and therefore aren't saved.  Also, I don't know how you would even count these numbers accurately.  Also, no one can know another's hearth, how do you know that these people weren't raised Catholic and just identify themselves as such.  When really all they are are "well if you're good you'll get in" type of fake Christians?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #172 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 12:13pm
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Well this Pope has redeclared that if you aren't Catholic then you aren't a Christian and therefore aren't saved.


Whaaat now?
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #173 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 12:36pm
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THE POPE HAS REDECLARED THAT IF YOU AREN'T CATHOLIC THEN YOU AREN'T SAVED!

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #174 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 12:50pm
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Here - I found ya the links:

http://www.zimbio.com/The+Roman+Catholic+Church/articles/40/Pope+Declares+Other+...

This is his first statement

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288841,00.html

This is him trying to back peddle just a bit.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #175 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:05pm
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You should know by now that my "what now?" is shorthand for LINK ME!

wank.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #176 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:10pm
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"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession - the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.


Quote:
The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope - a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.



...

Theres nothing in my Bible that says we need a pope. Thanks catholicism for adding to the inspired Word of God.

Thanks for trying to add to what Jesus did on the cross for remission of sins, thereby saying theres more needed that what Jesus did.

Thanks for moving the sabbath to Sunday, in honor of the sun god apollo. Real nice Emperor Constantine... real nice.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #177 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:17pm
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That's why, back in the day, you had people like Martin Luther and he Thesises.  Today we get morons like Hagee just saying random anti-Catholic things.  Luther didn't nail his manuscript to the door as most people think, because he wasn't trying to tear down the church or split it up.  His movement did bring us to the Solo Scriptura (only Scripture) that was present after the death of the apostles and before the rise of Roman Catholicism.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #178 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:42pm
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MediaMaster wrote on Mar 31st, 2008 at 1:10pm:
Theres nothing in my Bible that says we need a pope. Thanks catholicism for adding to the inspired Word of God.


Buuuuut he's infallible!  How dare you impugn his self-righteous declarations!

-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #179 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 3:32pm
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I thought that the person who had the magical pope hat was God?

This religion stuff is all confusing...if only someone would write it down in a book for me to read.
« Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2008 at 5:52pm by spanky »  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #180 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 3:51pm
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I prefer simple, easy-to-understand instructional videos.

-b0b
(...small words, please!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #181 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 5:53pm
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Woot, books on tape!


Hmm, now who still has a tape player...
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #182 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 5:58pm
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They're also called audio books...so you can get them on CD now...wait...who still has a CD player?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #183 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:28pm
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My car does you lamer!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #184 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 8:50pm
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Yeah, he just upgraded his 8-track deck last week.

-b0b
(...get both!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #185 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 9:01pm
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That was after he replaced the phonograph player...it'd always skip when he hit a bump...or making out with his b/f.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #186 - Apr 1st, 2008 at 8:28am
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...or making out with his b/f.



Why talk about yourself in the third person?

...hmm, call myself gay just to make fun of pat.  Was it worth it?   Yes, yes it was.
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #187 - Apr 1st, 2008 at 8:34am
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Fun - and oh so true.

-b0b
(...backs out of this thread slowly.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #188 - May 20th, 2008 at 8:54am
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'Bush intends to attack Iran before the end of his term'
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1210668683139&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FS...

JPost.com Staff , THE JERUSALEM POST May. 20, 2008

US President George W. Bush intends to attack Iran in the upcoming months, before the end of his term, Army Radio quoted a senior official in Jerusalem as saying Tuesday.

The official claimed that a senior member of the president's entourage, which concluded a trip to Israel last week, said during a closed meeting that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were of the opinion that military action was called for.

However, the official continued, "the hesitancy of Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice" was preventing the administration from deciding to launch such an attack on the Islamic Republic, for the time being.

The report stated that according to assessments in Israel, recent turmoil in Lebanon, where Hizbullah de facto established control of the country, was advancing an American attack.

Bush, the officials said, opined that Hizbullah's show of strength was evidence of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's growing influence. They said that according to Bush, "the disease must be treated - not its symptoms."

In an address to the Knesset during his visit here last week, Bush said that "the president of Iran dreams of returning the Middle East to the Middle Ages."

"America stands with you in firmly opposing Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions," Bush said. "Permitting the world's leading sponsor of terror to possess the world's deadliest weapon would be an unforgivable betrayal of future generations. For the sake of peace, the world must not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon."


I call BS, but nonetheless, there it is.

-b0b
(...thinks congress would tell him to shove it.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #189 - May 20th, 2008 at 12:36pm
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Army Radio quoted a senior official in Jerusalem as saying Tuesday.


Great not only is the administration threatening Iran from time to time, but so are all Presidential candidates (except Ron Paul), but now Israel is speaking for us now.  Just peachy.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #190 - Jun 12th, 2008 at 8:57am
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Robert Mugabe's militia burn opponent’s wife alive
The Times
June 12, 2008

Jan Raath in Mhondoro

The men who pulled up in three white pickup trucks were looking for Patson Chipiro, head of the Zimbabwean opposition party in Mhondoro district. His wife, Dadirai, told them he was in Harare but would be back later in the day, and the men departed.

An hour later they were back. They grabbed Mrs Chipiro and chopped off one of her hands and both her feet. Then they threw her into her hut, locked the door and threw a petrol bomb through the window.

The killing last Friday – one of the most grotesque atrocities committed by Robert Mugabe’s regime since independence in 1980 – was carried out on a wave of worsening brutality before the run-off presidential elections in just over two weeks. It echoed the activities of Foday Sankoh, the rebel leader in the Sierra Leone civil war that ended in 2002, whose trade-mark was to chop off hands and feet.

Mrs Chipiro, 45, a former pre-school teacher, was the second wife of a junior official of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) burnt alive last Friday by Zanu (PF) militiamen. Pamela Pasvani, the 21-year-old pregnant wife of a local councillor in Harare, did not suffer mutilation but died later of her burns; his six-year-old son perished in the flames.

Yesterday about 70 local MDC supporters gathered in Mr Chipiro’s small yard in Mhondoro, 90 miles south of Harare, to protect him. Inside the hut where his wife of 29 years died, women sang softly to a subdued drum beat next to the cheap wooden coffin. The thatched roof had been destroyed in the fire so they sat under the open sky. The lid could not be closed because Mrs Chipiro’s outstretched arm had burnt rigid. Her charred hand was found as women swept the hut.

Mr Chipiro, 51, a small, determined man, arrived from Harare on Friday afternoon to find his three brick huts ablaze. “I was trying to put the fire out,” he said. “I thought my wife was hiding in the bushes.”

His four-year-old nephew, Admire, heard him calling her. “He ran to me. He said, ‘Auntie has been beaten and they threw her in the fire’.”

Bright Matonga, the Deputy Information Minister and the MP for the area, lives just over a mile away. There is also a Zanu (PF) youth militia camp near by. Mr Matonga routinely blames the violence – in which nearly 70 people have died and 25,000 have been left homeless since the elections on March 29 – on Britain and the United States. He claims that they pay the MDC to put on Zanu party regalia and attack Mr Mugabe’s opponents.

When Mr Chipiro went to the police, they refused to give him an official crime incident report. They fetched the body at about 10pm, he said. A post-mortem examination was carried out at St Michael’s Catholic mission hospital. At first police gave Mr Chipiro a report that left out the causes of death. An officer intervened and produced an authentic report.

The report said that seven men assaulted Mrs Chipiro “before dragging her in one of the houses and set all three houses on fire”. It said that the body showed “signs of assault since all hands and legs were broken”. The doctor who carried out the post-mortem described the cause of death as haemorrhaging and severe burns. “These youths are taught cruelty,” Mr Chipiro said. “They get used to murdering. They enjoy murdering. They are doing it for money.”

He said that thugs returned for him two nights ago but fled when they saw his supporters. “I am very frightened,” he said. “They want to kill me. But I have no alternative. My presence here as a leader is very important. If I leave, everyone else will leave. I intend to fight the battle, from here.”


Alright, so Rhodesia Zimbabwe isn't in the Middle East, but it's close enough.  Same crap, different name.

Hopefully, one of Mugabe's guards will just put a bullet in his skull while he's on the crapper or something.  Of course, I'm guessing Mugabe is really just a figurehead for the military junta, but I could be wrong.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #191 - Jun 24th, 2008 at 10:29am
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Rockets hit Israel

JERUSALEM - Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

Islamic Jihad militants in the Gaza Strip says they carried out the attack to avenge an Israeli military raid that killed one of their fighters in the West Bank early Tuesday.

Israel's national rescue service says two people were lightly wounded in the rocket barrage.

The West Bank is not formally part of the truce. But Islamic Jihad says it "cannot keep its hands tied" when its "brothers" in the West Bank are being targeted.

However, the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas group says it remains committed to the truce.

Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in the West Bank raid.


Wow, this agreement lasted a whole week!  That might be a new record!

They may as well just give up on the whole peace thing and wait for that "special someone" to come along and do it for them.


-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #192 - Jun 24th, 2008 at 2:48pm
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Why stop fighting when others are still fighting...


Who can argue with that logic!  It is bound to end when they all die off...right?!
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #193 - Jun 24th, 2008 at 3:15pm
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Not less guns, more guns! 

If we can get those bastards to be a bit more accurate, their death rate will overtake their birth rate, and the problem will solve itself!


-b0b
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #194 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 8:44am
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TEHRAN, Iran — Iran's Revolutionary Guards have begun a military exercise and issued a warning that Israel and U.S. naval forces in the Persian Gulf would be prime targets if Iran is attacked.

The Web site of the elite Iranian force posted a statement late Monday announcing the military drill, which it said involved "missile squads," but did not say where it was taking place. Iran's guards and national army hold regular exercises two or three times a year, but the statement did not say whether this drill was one of them or if it was a special exercise.

Israel's military sent warplanes over the eastern Mediterranean for a large military exercise in June that U.S. officials described as a possible rehearsal for a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, which the West fears are aimed at producing atomic weapons.

The Iranian Web Site quoted guard official Ali Shirazi as saying that Israel's coastal metropolis of Tel Aviv and U.S. warships in the Gulf would be among the first targets if Iran comes under attack.

"The Zionist regime is pushing the White House to prepare for a military strike on Iran," Shirazi was quoted as saying. "If such a stupidity is done by them, Tel Aviv and the U.S. naval fleet in the Persian Gulf will be the first targets which will be set on fire in Iran's crushing response." 



I think I just heard gas prices go up a few cents.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #195 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 11:49am
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #196 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 12:30pm
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I can't listen to the video at work, but I'm going to step out on a limb and guess he's talking about speculation?


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #197 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 2:07pm
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well when oil trading is 70% speculation, and goes up and down on the slightest news that "omg Israels going to attack Iran", I think there is a problem. Capitalism is great, but there has to be limits on something that has the potential to bring the world to its knees, when supplies are still ok.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #198 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 2:46pm
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I have a feeling that the US is not tapping into major oil nearby so that we can be a dominanct force with oil in the future.  By the time other oil reserves are dry, we won't be using oil very much.  Why not be richer now?
  
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #199 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 5:06pm
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MediaMaster wrote on Jul 8th, 2008 at 2:07pm:
well when oil trading is 70% speculation...


The value of a barrel of oil is determined by supply and demand.  When the supply is threatened and the demand continues to increase, the value increases dramatically.  That's no the fault of "speculators," that's just the way a free economy functions.  Sure, we don't have to like it, but trying to regulate that is a surefire way to run the economy straight into a wall.

Speculation isn't just a "necessary evil," it is actually very, very important to a properly running economy.  If it wasn't for the oil futures market, we'd be well and truly screwed right now.

If you're interested in a more thorough post, I'll add more tomorrow upon request!


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #200 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 5:27pm
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And speculation really only counts for more like 30% which is still high but you'd have to stop every industry from doing stuff like that then because every stock has those people.

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Reply #201 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 5:59pm
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new thread?
  
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Reply #202 - Jul 8th, 2008 at 7:35pm
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I'm game.  There's a lot of random BS being spouted about speculators in the media, but speculators actually play an extraordinarily important and necessary role in the commodities market.


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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #203 - Dec 30th, 2008 at 11:32am
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MADRID (MarketWatch) -- As Israel marked the fourth day of a fierce air assault on Gaza, the country's interior minister Meir Sheetrit rejected the possibility of a ceasefire, vowing the attacks will continue until the threat of rockets from Hamas is completely eliminated.
"The Israeli army must not stop the operation before breaking the will of the Palestinians, of Hamas, to continue to fire at Israel," Sheetrit told Israel Radio on Tuesday, according to a report from BBC News.

Israeli ground forces were massed on the border of the coastal enclave, braced for a possible invasion, the Washington Post reported.

In another interview, Matan Vilnai, a deputy defense minister, said the military has "made preparations for long weeks of action," the BBC said. On Tuesday, Israeli jets reportedly attacked targets linked to the Hamas movement, which controls the Gaza Strip, hitting numerous government buildings and security installations.

Israel has allowed trucks loaded with supplies to enter Gaza but a UN official says not enough is being done to prevent a humanitarian crisis. Video courtesy of Reuters.Forty people were said to be injured in Tuesday's action, with the death toll now topping 360 since Saturday. Hamas has reported more than 300 Palestinians dead since the start of action on Saturday, while the United Nations says 56 civilians have died in Israel's fiercest air assault on Gaza in decades.
On Monday, the Bush administration and top congressional Democrats blamed the militant Hamas group for the flare up in the Gaza Strip. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid echoed the Bush administration's statements. "I strongly support Israel's right to defend its citizens against rockets and mortar attacks from Hamas-controlled Gaza," Reid said in a statement.

European Union foreign ministers are due to meet in Paris at 5:30 pm GMT on Tuesday to discuss the mounting crisis, the BBC reported. Hosted by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, the meeting is expected to try to figure out a humanitarian aid corridor to bring aid to Gaza's population of 1.5 million.

Israel has said it would allow more aid trucks in to Gaza, with dozens seen headed towards early on Tuesday, the Washington Post reported.

Angry protests have been taking place across the Arab world and in many European cities to protest the offensive.

The escalation of violence in the region pushed crude prices 6% higher in electronic trading on Globex on Monday, on worries the violence could trigger disruption to crude supplies from the Middle East. Those gains proved short-lived, however, and on Tuesday, the price of crude was down 77 cents to $39.25 in Globex electronic trading.


It's always nice to see the Middle East come together for the holidays.


-b0b
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