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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Science Schmience Thread (Read 420635 times)
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #210 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 2:45pm
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Yes but let us take heed from Alien, Aliens, Aliens3, Alien Resurrection, and Alien Vs. Predator...corporations in space can be bad if not checked and balanced.

And I don't even consider spaceflights for tourism as a legitimate space purpose.  Yes it would be fun and rake in millions of dollars but I'm talking about legitamite science...not some Jurassic Park-esk "ooo look at the Earth" and of course they'll build it cheap and safety insufficient and then they'll name it the "Titanic" and then a made for TV movie will get made about the disaster...or James Cameron will try and prove Jesus' bones were on the space station (wow I really got off track!).

Space hotel and space tourism is making my point though...there would be no science or exploration benefit only about taking money from people who want to go into space...and Russia's doing that already.

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #211 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 2:49pm
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Yeah, X, we call that capitalism.  If there is money to be made from traveling into space (be it from tourism, mining, cheesy documentaries, etc.), private industry will make the necessary investment to capitalize on the opportunity.

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #212 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 2:53pm
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yes but they are developing new technologies to do so, and streamlining old ones! I mean it is only going to cost 250k per person to go into low earth orbit. Awesome! Keep pushing and streamlining to develop easier to build space stations for these hotels, and you are getting new technology, and cheaper technology! That is what we need! Even if it is to just stare at the earth from space, you are making outer space more accessible!

What if these corporations want to build a space elevator? Which is a distinct possibility. Estimates place the project around 10 billion dollars. So anyway, this allows for cheap travel to space, and hauling of other materials, which allows for larger space stations and the construction of large spacecraft.

You think space tourism would stop at low earth orbit? No!  people will want to see the moon, then mars, the asteroid belt, etc! So larger ships and engine technology will be invented. The demand will be there, which will create this drive and motivation for space travel.

Cause when you break it down to it's basic level, isn't space exploration just a fancy word for tourism!? You think scientists want to go to mars to look at samples and rocks? No! They could build robots for that... They want to explore... to tour!

So yes, tourism in space is creating a huge demand for space travel and will start a huge boom in developing space technologies.

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #213 - Apr 25th, 2007 at 3:00pm
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I'm not saying space tourism is a bad thing I'm just saying that it will only be one end of the spectrum I think we would want.  New technology coming from that would be good, es. the space elevator (although you'd have to watch out for another false flag operation...those "muslim" terrorists again and a space elevator to Mars would be loooong :-D ).  However we still need entities for the science aspect of life as well.  Flying some people with 250K to spend generates revenue, which I'm not against, but the science is what will bring a greater impact to the world.

Also, are we going to allow the govt to have a hands off policy on overseeing safety and quality control?  If Enron and WorldCom and all the other corps have taught us is that we should trust corporations like we trust our government...not that much.

So yes, let me visit the moon for $20 and let us colonize some planets...but we need to know the science behind our universe and that ALONG with the develop to obtain those findings will be a greater benefit to us than anything else.

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #214 - Apr 26th, 2007 at 1:16am
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Ok now for another "evolution" type story.  I confirmed my findings with Eric so I've checked with my findings on this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/04/25/hubble.nebula.reut/index.html

Quote:
Dazzling image captures violent birth of stars
POSTED: 11:17 a.m. EDT, April 25, 2007

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- A dazzlingly detailed image released by NASA scientists on Tuesday shows the chaotic conditions in which stars are born and die -- in this case in a huge nebula in another neighborhood of our Milky Way galaxy.


I want you to read this article and remember 1984's double think throughout it.  Right off the bat these moronic scientists believe that out of chaos comes order.  Hmm let's detonate a bomb in a scrap heap and let's see if it gives us a car.  If this really happened and chaos brought about order we should no longer care about laws and order.  In fact we are hurting ourselves by developing laws and order.

Quote:
The image, made from a series of 48 shots taken by the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope in spring and summer of 2005, depicts star birth in a new level of detail.


Ok now here they promised me a birth of a star ok?  A BIRTH of a star.

Quote:
It provides a view spanning a distance of 50 light years across of the Carina Nebula. A nebula is an immense cloud of hot interstellar gas and dust.

This messy and chaotic region includes at least a dozen brilliant stars estimated to be perhaps 50 to 100 times the mass of the sun, astronomers said.

One of them, called Eta Carinae, is in the final stages of its short life span, with two billowing lobes of gas and dust -- a harbinger of its future explosion as a large supernova.


THE DEATH OF A STAR?!  I thought we were showing stars being born!!!  If you were a scientist who thought he was seeing stars being born...why would you point to the star about to die?  It makes no logical sense.  Wouldn't you say like..."Look at this point of light...we named it Star X...see how it's adding mass to become bigger and brighter and hotter!?"  Nooo...he points to the star dying!

Quote:
"In short, it gives us a glimpse of the violent conditions that most stars are born in, where they are exposed to the relentless irradiation from their older siblings," astronomer Nathan Smith of the University of California at Berkeley, the lead investigator in this work, said by e-mail.


Huh *shakes head with cartoon sounds coming out of it*.  When did he give us an example of a star being born?  So can we create a star in the lab and just radiate the heck out of it?  Oh no?  Why's that?  Well because that would destroy anything like that...not create something.  These "scientists" are forgetting the two basic laws of science.  Matter and energy cannot be created and the law of entropy.  THAT! is what we are seeing here!  We are seeing these stars wind down in the cloud!  Not build up! 

Quote:
"There are several clues suggesting that our sun and planets were indeed born in a violent region something like this, along with some very hot and massive stars," Smith added. Our solar system was formed about 4.6 billion years ago.


*Cough* Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. *cough*

Quote:
The nebula is about 7,500 light years away from Earth in the constellation Carina in a neighboring spiral arm of our Milky Way galaxy. The Hubble image depicts a massive region, but it is only a small portion of the whole nebula, which spans 150 to 200 light years across, Smith said.

People can see the nebula with the naked eye from Earth's southern hemisphere, Smith said.

"What you are seeing in the image is hot ionized gas -- in this case, the colors represent oxygen, hydrogen and sulfur at different temperatures," Smith added.


Hmm if it's gas that means it's burning and if it's burning that DOESN'T mean it's being born...it DOES mean that it is dying!  Just like our sun.  You never see fire evolve up into something new and better or create something new or better.

Quote:
The image was released to coincide with the 17th anniversary of launching Hubble into orbit to provide scientists with clear and deep views of the universe without the Earth's atmosphere getting in the way. It is one of the largest panoramic images ever taken by Hubble.

The future of Hubble is in doubt because the space shuttle program is winding down in the coming years and the telescope needs manned maintenance missions to continue operations.

The image was released by NASA's Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore.


So today we learn that black is white and dry is wet and dying means life.  Now your next assignment is to go to the 2 minutes of hate and do the best you can at silencing Emmanuel Goldstein!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #215 - Apr 26th, 2007 at 8:05pm
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http://www.standard-freeholder.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=502332...

Quote:
The current debate about global warming is "completely irrational," and people need to start taking a different approach, say two Ottawa scientists.

Carleton University science professor Tim Patterson said global warming will not bring about the downfall of life on the planet.

Patterson said much of the up-to-date research indicates that "changes in the brightness of the sun" are almost certainly the primary cause of the warming trend since the end of the "Little Ice Age" in the late 19th century. Human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the gas of concern in most plans to curb climate change, appear to have little effect on global climate, he said.

"I think the proof in the pudding, based on what (media and governments) are saying, (is) we're about three quarters of the way (to disaster) with the doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere," said Patterson. "The world should be heating up like crazy by now, and it's not. The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles."

Patterson explained CO2 is not a pollutant, but an essential plant food.


Billions of taxpayers' dollars are spent to control the emissions of this benign gas, in the mistaken belief that they can stop climate change, he said.
  

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #216 - Apr 27th, 2007 at 1:49am
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But...but...Al Gore said I was ruining the environment with my one computer and he was doing Gaia's work with his mansion...and...and the UN scientists said global warming was true too....and Pluto isn't a planet....

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #217 - Apr 27th, 2007 at 7:14am
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Wes's Mom is still a planet, but you don't hear me complaining.  Watch out for her "asteroid belt."

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #218 - Apr 27th, 2007 at 7:35am
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if global warming is real...then why was it still so fucking cold in houghton?!
  
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #219 - Apr 27th, 2007 at 11:25am
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Because the devil has to live somewhere before he goes to the hot hot place!
  

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #220 - Apr 27th, 2007 at 11:43am
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Jamaica?

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #221 - May 8th, 2007 at 8:43am
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WASHINGTON - Scientists say they have detected the brightest stellar explosion ever recorded, a new breed of supernova that may well be repeated sooner than they previously thought.

The violent explosion was observed by ground-based telescopes as well as NASA's orbiting Chandra X-Ray Observatory in a galaxy far from our own Milky Way. But the observations hint that an erupting star in our own galaxy, called Eta Carinae, could be close to the same kind of blast, astronomers say in a paper to be published in The Astrophysical Journal.

For years, scientists have been looking for a blast this big, but never found one until last September. After months of analysis, the research team discussed their findings at a news conference Monday here at NASA Headquarters.

"We discovered a supernova that stands out as far and away the most powerful, the brightest supernova that has ever been observed," the head of the research team, Nathan Smith of the University of California at Berkeley, told reporters.

"Now that alone is not reason to make it so exciting," he continued. "The reason we're excited about it is that the supernova is so powerful we think it may require a new type of explosion mechanism, that has been predicted theoretically but has never been actually observed before."

The brightness of the supernova, which has been designated SN 2006gy, wasn't that obvious to earthly observers because the star that blew up was 240 million light-years from Earth, in a galaxy called NGC 1260.

But when astronomers took that vast distance into account, they figured that the supernova was 100 times more energetic than usual. Such a phenomenon would require the violent destruction of a star 150 times more massive than our sun — which is near the theoretical limit for a single star's size.

A new twist for theorists
Theorists had thought that stars that big were more likely to collapse into black holes, sucking all their mass into gravitational sinkholes. Another possibility was that the stars might blow away much of their mass, leaving behind a superdense neutron star.

However, the observations of SN 2006gy hint that the biggest stars can go off like giant thermonuclear bombs at the end of their lives. As the star blows up, some of the energy is converted into pairs of matter and antimatter particles, leading to a runaway thermonuclear reaction rather than a black hole.

"This is Einstein's famous equation E=mc2 put into practice," said Mario Livio, a senior astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute. Livio was not part of the supernova research team but said the team's conclusions were plausible.

This process would be completely different from the typical supernova blast, which involves material ejected from the star's core slamming into surrounding hydrogen gas and creating a violent shock wave.

To make sure that the shock-wave mechanism wasn't at work in SN 2006gy, the astronomers compared the observations from ground-based telescopes with Chandra's X-ray readings. They found that the X-ray readings would have had to have been 1,000 times stronger to fit the usual pattern. That's what led the astronomers to conclude that the blast was powered by the runaway thermonuclear process.

A supernova nearby?
Astronomers think many of the universe's first generation of stars were this massive. Thus, SN 2006gy could shed light on how the first stars lived and died.

But the findings also raise the possibility that Eta Carinae, the most massive and energetic star observed in our own galaxy, could blow up in the same way. Smith and his colleagues noted that Eta Carinae is roughly the same size as the star behind SN 2006gy, and at roughly the same stage of its life. Eta Carinae, like the star that exploded in the distant galaxy, appears to be shedding huge clouds of hydrogen gas in preparation for a blowup, the astronomers said.

For all its similarities, Eta Carinae is markedly different from SN 2006gy in that it's much closer. Eta Carinae is only 7,500 light-years from Earth, or about 45 quadrillion miles away — which may sound like a long way in earthly terms, but isn't all that distant for a cosmic supernova.

If Eta Carinae were to blow up like SN 2006gy, we'd definitely notice it, said David Pooley, the Berkeley astronomer who was in charge of Chandra's observations.

"It would be so bright that you could see it during the day, and you could even read a book by its light at night," Pooley told reporters.

Scientists had thought that Eta Carinae would have to puff away all its shells of hydrogen before blowing up, a process that could take 100,000 years or more. But Livio noted that the newly proposed mechanism would allow for an explosion at any time.


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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #222 - May 9th, 2007 at 2:42pm
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http://www.wecnmagazine.com/2007issues/may/may07.html

The Faithful Heretic
A Wisconsin Icon Pursues Tough Questions

Some people are lucky enough to enjoy their work, some are lucky enough to love it, and then there’s Reid Bryson. At age 86, he’s still hard at it every day, delving into the science some say he invented.

Reid A. Bryson holds the 30th PhD in Meteorology granted in the history of American education. Emeritus Professor and founding chairman of the University of Wisconsin Department of Meteorology—now the Department of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences—in the 1970s he became the first director of what’s now the UW’s Gaylord Nelson Institute of Environmental Studies. He’s a member of the United Nations Global 500 Roll of Honor—created, the U.N. says, to recognize “outstanding achievements in the protection and improvement of the environment.” He has authored five books and more than 230 other publications and was identified by the British Institute of Geographers as the most frequently cited climatologist in the world.

Long ago in the Army Air Corps, Bryson and a colleague prepared the aviation weather forecast that predicted discovery of the jet stream by a group of B-29s flying to and from Tokyo. Their warning to expect westerly winds at 168 knots earned Bryson and his friend a chewing out from a general—and the general’s apology the next day when he learned they were right. Bryson flew into a couple of typhoons in 1944, three years before the Weather Service officially did such things, and he prepared the forecast for the homeward flight of the Enola Gay. Back in Wisconsin, he built a program at the UW that’s trained some of the nation’s leading climatologists.

How Little We Know

Bryson is a believer in climate change, in that he’s as quick as anyone to acknowledge that Earth’s climate has done nothing but change throughout the planet’s existence. In fact, he took that knowledge a big step further, earlier than probably anyone else. Almost 40 years ago, Bryson stood before the American Association for the Advancement of Science and presented a paper saying human activity could alter climate.

“I was laughed off the platform for saying that,” he told Wisconsin Energy Cooperative News.

In the 1960s, Bryson’s idea was widely considered a radical proposition. But nowadays things have turned almost in the opposite direction: Hardly a day passes without some authority figure claiming that whatever the climate happens to be doing, human activity must be part of the explanation. And once again, Bryson is challenging the conventional wisdom.

“Climate’s always been changing and it’s been changing rapidly at various times, and so something was making it change in the past,” he told us in an interview this past winter. “Before there were enough people to make any difference at all, two million years ago, nobody was changing the climate, yet the climate was changing, okay?”

“All this argument is the temperature going up or not, it’s absurd,” Bryson continues. “Of course it’s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we’re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we’re putting more carbon dioxide into the air.”

Little Ice Age? That’s what chased the Vikings out of Greenland after they’d farmed there for a few hundred years during the Mediaeval Warm Period, an earlier run of a few centuries when the planet was very likely warmer than it is now, without any help from industrial activity in making it that way. What’s called “proxy evidence”—assorted clues extrapolated from marine sediment cores, pollen specimens, and tree-ring data—helps reconstruct the climate in those times before instrumental temperature records existed.

We ask about that evidence, but Bryson says it’s second-tier stuff. “Don’t talk about proxies,” he says. “We have written evidence, eyeball evidence. When Eric the Red went to Greenland, how did he get there? It’s all written down.”

Bryson describes the navigational instructions provided for Norse mariners making their way from Europe to their settlements in Greenland. The place was named for a reason: The Norse farmed there from the 10th century to the 13th, a somewhat longer period than the United States has existed. But around 1200 the mariners’ instructions changed in a big way. Ice became a major navigational reference. Today, old Viking farmsteads are covered by glaciers.

Bryson mentions the retreat of Alpine glaciers, common grist for current headlines. “What do they find when the ice sheets retreat, in the Alps?”

We recall the two-year-old report saying a mature forest and agricultural water-management structures had been discovered emerging from the ice, seeing sunlight for the first time in thousands of years. Bryson interrupts excitedly.

“A silver mine! The guys had stacked up their tools because they were going to be back the next spring to mine more silver, only the snow never went,” he says. “There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.”

What Leads, What Follows?

What is normal? Maybe continuous change is the only thing that qualifies. There’s been warming over the past 150 years and even though it’s less than one degree, Celsius, something had to cause it. The usual suspect is the “greenhouse effect,” various atmospheric gases trapping solar energy, preventing it being reflected back into space.

We ask Bryson what could be making the key difference:

Q: Could you rank the things that have the most significant impact and where would you put carbon dioxide on the list?

A: Well let me give you one fact first. In the first 30 feet of the atmosphere, on the average, outward radiation from the Earth, which is what CO2 is supposed to affect, how much [of the reflected energy] is absorbed by water vapor? In the first 30 feet, 80 percent, okay?

Q: Eighty percent of the heat radiated back from the surface is absorbed in the first 30 feet by water vapor…

A: And how much is absorbed by carbon dioxide? Eight hundredths of one percent. One one-thousandth as important as water vapor. You can go outside and spit and have the same effect as doubling carbon dioxide.

This begs questions about the widely publicized mathematical models researchers run through supercomputers to generate climate scenarios 50 or 100 years in the future. Bryson says the data fed into the computers overemphasizes carbon dioxide and accounts poorly for the effects of clouds—water vapor. Asked to evaluate the models’ long-range predictive ability, he answers with another question: “Do you believe a five-day forecast?”

Bryson says he looks in the opposite direction, at past climate conditions, for clues to future climate behavior. Trying that approach in the weeks following our interview, Wisconsin Energy Cooperative News soon found six separate papers about Antarctic ice core studies, published in peer-reviewed scientific journals between 1999 and 2006. The ice core data allowed researchers to examine multiple climate changes reaching back over the past 650,000 years. All six studies found atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations tracking closely with temperatures, but with CO2 lagging behind changes in temperature, rather than leading them. The time lag between temperatures moving up—or down—and carbon dioxide following ranged from a few hundred to a few thousand years.

Renaissance Man, Marathon Man

When others were laughing at the concept, Reid Bryson was laying the ground floor for scientific investigation of human impacts on climate. We asked UW Professor Ed Hopkins, the assistant state climatologist, about the significance of Bryson’s work in advancing the science he’s now practiced for six decades.

“His contributions are manifold,” Hopkins said. “He wrote Climates of Hunger back in the 1970s looking at how climate changes over the last several thousand years have affected human activity and human cultures.”

This, he suggests, is traceable to Bryson’s high-school interest in archaeology, followed by college degrees in geology, then meteorology, and studies in oceanography, limnology, and other disciplines. “He’s looked at the interconnections of all these things and their impact on human societies,” Hopkins says. “He’s one of those people I would say is a Renaissance person.”

The Renaissance, of course, produced its share of heretics, and 21 years after he supposedly retired, one could ponder whether Bryson’s work today is a tale of continuing heresy, or of conventional wisdom being outpaced by an octogenarian.

Without addressing—or being asked—that question, UW Green Bay Emeritus Professor Joseph Moran agrees that Bryson qualifies as “the father of the science of modern climatology.”

“In his lifetime, in his career, he has shaped the future as well as the present state of climatology,” Moran says, adding, “We’re going to see his legacy with us for many generations to come.”

Holding bachelor’s and master’s degrees from Boston College, Moran became a doctoral candidate under Bryson in the late 1960s and early ’70s. “I came to Wisconsin because he was there,” Moran told us.

With Hopkins, Moran co-authored Wisconsin’s Weather and Climate, a book aimed at teachers, students, outdoor enthusiasts, and workers with a need to understand what the weather does and why. Bryson wrote a preface for the book but Hopkins told us the editors “couldn’t fathom” certain comments, thinking he was being too flippant with the remark that “Wisconsin is not for wimps when it comes to weather.”

Clearly what those editors couldn’t fathom was that Bryson simply enjoys mulling over the reasons weather and climate behave as they do and what might make them—and consequently us—behave differently. This was immediately obvious when we asked him why, at his age, he keeps showing up for work at a job he’s no longer paid to do.

“It’s fun!” he said. Ed Hopkins and Joe Moran would undoubtedly agree.

“I think that’s one of the reasons for his longevity,” Moran says. “He’s so interested and inquisitive. I regard him as a pot-stirrer. Sometimes people don’t react well when you challenge their long-held ideas, but that’s how real science takes place."


But... but... but... I thought it was a CONSENSUS!  You mean there are scientists (and respected ones at that) that disagree with the idea that we caused global warming?!

He's a Halliburton operative!  It's the only possible answer!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #223 - May 15th, 2007 at 2:08pm
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Human Ancestor Had a Pea Brain

Jeanna Bryner
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com Mon May 14, 8:15 PM ET

Higher primates such as humans are considered the brainiacs of the mammalian world. But a 29-million-year-old fossilized skull suggests that one of our remote ancestors was a bit of a “pea brain,” sporting a noggin smaller than that of a modern lemur.

The skull belonged to a common ancestor of humans, monkeys and apes.

"This means the big-brained monkeys and apes developed their large brains at a later point in time,” said lead study author Elwyn Simons, a Duke University primatologist.

Until now, scientists had assumed brain size was a key feature that defined higher primates, a category that includes humans, monkeys and apes. The larger brain relative to body size also has provided paleoanthropologists with a physical marker for the evolutionary distinction between higher and lower primates, which include lemurs of Madagascar.

Tiny enough to fit into the palm of your hand, the skull comes from a female Aegyptopithecus zeuxis, which means “linking Egyptian ape.” This early monkey lived about 33 million years ago, a time when primates were evolving rapidly. The cat-size primate ate fruits and leaves in a tropical rainforest in what is now the Fayum in Egypt.

The discovery, published online this week in the journal Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences, sheds light on the evolution of human-like brains .

“The reason Aegyptopithecus is so important is that it’s at the base of the family tree of the Old World higher primates, the group that we’re in,” Simons told LiveScience. “So this is telling us something about the chapter in our own ancestry.”

Small minded

Simons and his team dug up the skull in 2004 from a quarry called the Jebel Qatrani Formation in Egypt. The cranium was so well preserved the team used micro computed-tomography (CT) scanning, which relies on X-rays, to recreate the inside of the skull and calculate dimensions of the brain it once encased.

He had found a similar, but fragmented skull at the site in 1966. Comparing dimensions of the old and new skull suggests the 1996 specimen belonged to a male, while the new skull was that of a female. The size of the female skull suggests it “had a brain that might have been even smaller than that of a modern lemur's," Simons said.

The new skull also suggests the species had a much smaller brain than was previously estimated based on the 1996 skull.

“It’s a little surprising to find out that the brain volume on this thing indicates that maybe the New and Old World monkeys, their common ancestor had a prosimian-, or lower-primate-like brain like Aegyptopithecus does,” Simons said.

Sex differences

The team estimates the female weighed about five and a half pounds, or half the weight of the male. This size difference between males and females, called “sexual dimorphism,” is comparable to that in gorillas, whose genes make them our second-closest relatives next to chimpanzees.

The stark size difference indicates the monkey-like animals were social and hung out in multi-male and multi-female troops of 15 to 20 individuals. “If we infer that an Aegyptopithecus had a large social group, that suggests it had enough sense to tell all of those members apart from nonmembers,” Simons said.

"But other features in these skulls, and in many other Aegyptopithecus fossil pieces collected at the Egyptian site over four decades, suggest that this primate was already branching away from its lemur-like ancestry," he said.

Other features also point to an evolving primate. The skull shows features similar to other higher primates, including a developed visual cortex, suggesting Aegyptopithecus had acute vision. "So the visual sense, which is regarded as a very important feature of anthropoids, or higher primates, had already expanded,” Simons said.

And unlike the prosimians, which run around at night, the animal had small eye sockets and was likely diurnal (awake during daylight) like modern and ancient higher primates.


Because we know how easy it is to just grow a bigger brain.
  

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #224 - May 21st, 2007 at 9:05am
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Quote:
Reuters
Indonesian fisherman nets ancient fish

Mon May 21, 1:57 AM ET

MANADO, Indonesia (Reuters) - An Indonesian fisherman has caught a coelacanth, an ancient fish once thought to have become extinct at the time of the dinosaurs, a fishery expert said on Monday.
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Yustinus Lahama and his son caught the fish on Saturday in the sea off North Sulawesi province and kept it at their house for an hour, said Grevo Gerung, a professor at the fisheries faculty at the Sam Ratulangi University.

After being told by neighbours it was a rare fish he took it back to the sea and kept it in a quarantine pool for about 17 hours before it died.

"If kept outside their habitat (60 metres or 200 ft below the sea), the fish can only live for two hours. But this fish lived for about 17 hours," Gerung told Reuters.

"We will look into why it had lived that long," he said.

The fish was 131 centimetres (about four feet) long and weighed 51 kg (112 lb), Gerung said.

In 1998, fishermen a caught another coelacanth in a deep-water shark net off northern Sulawesi.

That catch came 60 years after a member of the species was rediscovered on the east coast of South Africa.

Coelacanths are known from the fossil records dating back more than 360 million years, according to the Australian Museum Fish Web site.

Before 1938 they were believed to have become extinct approximately 80 million years ago, when they disappeared from the fossil record, it said.

Coelacanths are the only living animals to have a fully functional intercranial joint, which is a division separating the ear and brain from the nasal organs and eye.


Yes because we all know that according to whichever theory of life you believe in...it's 100% viable with both theories when you believe a species can live more that 360 million years without evolving or going extinct.  Those are some old fish!

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