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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Middle East Conflict (Read 170733 times)
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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #45 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 12:25am
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/06/rs.01.html

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Is civilian casualties increasingly going to be a major media issue? In conflicts where you don't have two standing armies shooting at each other? THOMAS RICKS, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think it will be. But I think civilian casualties are also part of the battlefield play for both sides here. One of the things that is going on, according to some U.S. military analysts, is that Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they're being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon.

KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here?

RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.

KURTZ: That's an extraordinary testament to the notion that having people on your own side killed actually works to your benefit in that nobody wants to see your own citizens killed but it works to your benefit in terms of the battle of perceptions here.


this comes from "military analysts" who could be anyone... so this is not reliable. I posted it cause i was wondering why the heck there are still so many rockets coming down on Israel. Israeli intelligence is always top notch. They can take out a Hamas leader while he drives down a road, but not find large semi-sized launchers? they are mobile, and a whore to keep finding, but the rocket attacks are increasing, not diminishing. Israel has constant drone surveillance, so I am just a bit confused.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #46 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 8:20am
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Many of the rockets being fired are shoulder mounted, not mobile artillery.

-b0b
(...)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #47 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 9:49am
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An Israeli building in Haifa was hit by Hezzbollah rocket fire recently.  Here's the video...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2810053861134883693

-b0b
(...would like to see this video on major news outlets.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #48 - Aug 7th, 2006 at 11:59am
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shoulder mounted rockets that go 20+ kilometers? the Katyusha rockets are mounted on trucks.



And they use this other soviet rocket launcher



  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #49 - Aug 27th, 2006 at 1:25pm
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Defying U.N., Iran opens nuclear reactor By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer


KHONDAB, Iran - Iran's hard-line president on Saturday inaugurated a heavy-water production plant, a facility the West fears will be used to develop a nuclear bomb, as Tehran remained defiant ahead of a U.N. deadline that could lead to sanctions.

The U.N. has called on Tehran to stop the separate process of uranium enrichment — which also can be used to create nuclear weapons — by Thursday or face economic and political sanctions.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared that his nation's nuclear program poses no threat to other nations, even Israel, "which is a definite enemy."

Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Iran would never abandon what he once again called its purely peaceful nuclear program.

"There is no discussion of nuclear weapons," he said. "We are not a threat to anybody even the Zionist regime, which is a definite enemy for the people of the region."

Though the West's main worry has been enrichment of uranium that could be used in a bomb, it also has called on Iran to stop the construction of a heavy-water reactor near the production plant that Ahmadinejad inaugurated.

A senior Israeli lawmaker warned in a statement that the plant inauguration marks "another leap in Iran's advance toward a nuclear bomb."

Israeli legislator Ephraim Sneh of the Labor Party, a partner in the ruling coalition, said that the Jewish state must "prepare itself militarily." Ahmadinejad last year called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

The spent fuel from a heavy-water reactor can be reprocessed to extract plutonium for use in a bomb.

Reactors fueled by enriched uranium use regular — or light — water in the chain reaction that produces energy. Heavy water contains a heavier hydrogen particle, which allow the reactor to run on natural uranium mined by Iran, forgoing the enrichment progress.

Vice President Gholamreza Aghazadeh, who also heads the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, said the heavy-water facility will be used to treat and diagnose AIDS and cancer, and for other medicine and agricultural purposes.
Iran is scheduled to complete the reactor in 2009.

Iran responded Tuesday to package of incentives, presented by the five permanent members of the Security Council plus Germany, for it to halt uranium enrichment and return to negotiations on increasing international oversight of its nuclear program. Tehran said it would be open to negotiations but did not agree to the West's key demand to halt enrichment as a precondition to talks.

The International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, will report on the state of Iran's program by mid-September. If its report finds that enrichment is continuing, the council could move toward sanctions.

Tehran has called the Security Council resolution that set the Thursday deadline "illegal" and has insisted it won't give up its nuclear program.

"They may impose some restrictions on us under pressure. But will they be able to prevent the thoughts of a nation?" Ahmadinejad said Saturday. "Will they be able to prevent the progress and technology to a nation? They have to accept the reality of a powerful, peace-loving and developed Iran. This is in the interest of all governments and all nations whether they like it or not."

Mohammed Saeedi, the deputy head of Iran's atomic organization, called the heavy-water plant "one of the biggest nuclear projects" in the country, state-run television reported.


-b0b
(...thinks Kofi Annan is gonna bust open a whole can of resolutions on Iran.  OH NOS!)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #50 - Sep 19th, 2006 at 8:52am
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CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran’s supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff’s remarks on Islam.

Protests broke out in South Asia and Indonesia, with angry Muslims saying Benedict’s statement of regret a day earlier did not go far enough. In southern Iraq, demonstrators carrying black flags burned an effigy of the pope.

Islamic leaders around the world issued more condemnations of the pope’s comments, but some moderates in the Middle East appeared to be trying to put a damper on the outrage, fearing it could spiral into attacks on Christians in the region.

The pontiff said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war. But he stopped short of retracting a speech seen as portraying Islam as a religion tainted by violence.

Benedict said the remarks came from a text that didn’t reflect his own opinion, but he did not retract what he said or say he was sorry he uttered what proved to be explosive words.

Working to defuse situation
The Vatican on Monday sought to defuse the anger, ordering papal representatives around the world to meet with leaders of Muslim countries to explain the pope’s point of view and full context of his speech.

Roman Catholic leaders stepped forward to defend the pontiff. At an Italian bishops conference, Cardinal Camillo Ruini underlined the bishops’ “total closeness and solidarity to the pope” and said they deplored interpretations of the pope’s comments “which attribute to the Holy Father ... errors that he has not committed and aim at attacking his person and his ministry.”

Few in the Islamic world were satisfied by Benedict’s statement of regret.

“The pope’s words have caused a deep wound in the hearts of Muslims that won’t heal for a long time, and then only after a clear apology to Muslims,” Egypt’s religious affairs minister, Mahmoud Hamdi Zaqzouq, wrote in a column in the government daily Al-Ahram on Monday.

An influential Egyptian cleric, Sheik Youssef al-Qaradawi, called for protests after weekly prayers on Friday but maintained they should be peaceful.

Extremists said the pope’s comments proved that the West was in a war against Islam.

Statement from al-Qaida
Al-Qaida in Iraq and its allies issued a statement addressing the pope as “a cross-worshipper” and warning, “You and the West are doomed, as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere.

“You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad (holy war) and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism, when God’s rule is established governing all people and nations,” said the statement by the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of Sunni Arab extremist groups in Iraq.



Another Iraqi extremist group, Ansar al-Sunna, challenged “sleeping Muslims” to prove their manhood by doing something other than “issuing statements or holding demonstrations.”

“If the stupid pig is prancing with his blasphemies in his house,” the group said in a Web statement, referring to the pope, “then let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome.”

In Iran, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei used the comments to call for protests against the United States. He argued that while the pope may have been deceived into making his remarks, the words give the West an “excuse for suppressing Muslims” by depicting them as terrorists.

“Those who benefit from the pope’s comments and drive their own arrogant policies should be targeted with attacks and protests,” he said, referring to the United States.


Recalls cartoon furor
The anger recalled the outrage earlier this year over cartoons depicting the prophet published by a Danish paper. The caricatures, which Muslims saw as insulting Muhammad, set off large, violent protests across the Islamic world.

So far, protests over the pope’s comments have been smaller. However, there has been some violence: Attackers hurled firebombs at seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the weekend, and a nun was shot to death in Somalia.

Some 200 Khamenei loyalists in the Syrian capital, Damascus, held a protest Monday at an Islamic shrine, dismissing the pope’s apology. “The pope’s sorrow was equivocal,” read one banner.


Dozens protested outside the Vatican Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, and schools and shops in the Indian-controlled section of Kashmir shut their doors in protest.

“His comments really hurt Muslims all over the world,” Umar Nawawi of the radical Islamic Defenders’ Front said in Jakarta. “We should remind him not to say such things which can only fuel a holy war.”

Malaysia says apology not enough


Islamic countries also asked the U.N. Human Rights Council to examine the question of religious tolerance. Malaysia’s foreign minister, Syed Hamid Albar, said Benedict’s apology was “inadequate to calm the anger.”

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood said the anger should not be allowed to hurt ties with the Middle East’s Christian minorities. But worries among Christians in the region are high.

Guards have been posted around some churches, and the head of Egypt’s Orthodox Coptic Church, Pope Shenouda III, disassociated himself from Benedict’s statements.

The Dominican mission in Cairo also criticized Benedict’s words, saying he chose a text for his speech that “revived the polemics of the past.”

“These comments, seen by many Muslims as hurtful, risk encouraging extremists on all sides,” it said in a statement, “and put in danger all the advances in dialogue made in recent decades.”

U.S. Muslim group counsels need to ‘move on’
In the United States, however, the leader of the largest U.S. Islamnic advocacy organization called for understanding the pope's error, if not accepting it, and the need to move on.

“The pope has now stated that the quote he used does not reflect his opinions about Islam and Muslims, and we have to take his word for it,” said Ibrahim Hooper, director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based Islamic civil liberies and advocacy organization.

“We want to move on from here and make sure relations aren’t further damaged between Catholics and Muslims worldwide. For many years under the previous pope, relations between Catholics and Muslims were quite strong. We would hate to see anything harm that relationship,” Hooper told MSNBC.com.

The Associated Press and MSNBC.com contributed to this report.



On a mostly-unrelated side note, I wonder how Hugo Chavez's appreciation for Iranian Muslim Clerics is going in heavily Catholic Venezuela now that many Muslims are calling for the Pope to be killed?

Personally, I am growing tired of the muslim sense of "outrage".  I grow even more tired of their expressions of outrage.

What kind of belief system justifies lying in wait for a nun (who dedicated her entire life to helping anyone in Somalia) before shooting her in the back as she walked home to get some sleep?  What kind of religion thinks such an action is a "justified" response to the out-of-context quotation of one German guy?  I don't care what name you slap on that mindset - if someone holds such an opinion, they should do us all a favor and jump off a frickin' cliff.  There are some people the world simply does not need, and let's face it - anyone with that mindset is one of them.

This brings me to another question - where are all of the "mainstream muslims" during all of this?  The media constantly expounds the difference between "mainstream muslims" and "militant muslims," but I never hear regular Joe Blow muslims telling their militant cousins to sit down and shut up.  On the flip side, any time a Christian goes nuts and does something retarded, we're the first in line to distance ourselves from them and explain why they don't represent Christianity.  Heck, we use it as an evangelistic opportunity when we can.  But muslims?  Where's the outrage?

-b0b
(...will probably get in trouble for this.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #51 - Sep 19th, 2006 at 11:47am
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Bob you have to stop stealing my post he he.

Quote:
'm sorry to say but these "peaceful Muslims" that we're told about exist in America and else where need to take a step forward and tell their fellow believers to shut up.  We as Christians, I am speaking for us who consider ourselves Christian, have to defend our faith when some guy with a pipebomb blows up an abortion clinic or says God hates fags and loves dead soldiers.  If these "peaceful Muslims" would just show us that they are out there and care...I think most of us could find the distintion between THOSE Muslims and THESE Muslims.  I'm sorry but I just don't understand how anyone could think this is an apporpriate response to a comment made by someone of another religion.  - From Pictures And Vieo Thread


I also talked about the "where's the cry from the good Muslims".

Well here's one...http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060919.@01&irec=0 .  But where are America's Muslims?

I was also think about that poor nun.  I wonder what would happen if that nun was Mother Teresa, alive of course.  Do you think that the entire world would be outraged?  I know I would be and I'm not even Catholic anymore.  She was almost as popular, if not more, than the Pople himself.  If this nun had been as famous as her...I'd be more afraid for Muslims, esp those here in the US.  Yet since it's "just a nun" we go "Ha ha those CRAZY Muslims" and continue to just get reemed in the butt by them.  This is a reason why I would never become a Muslim.  They claim a religion of peace and the quest for god.  Yet violence, the call for violence, bloodshed, and just negative images are shown.  At least with Christians, you see...going to Africa to help combat the UN and actually help to treat dying Africans without tainted "vaccines, you see them get arrested in China for spreading their belief.  Remember, I think it was in Afganistan, I may be wrong there.  But a man converted from Islam to Christianity...and they wanted to kill him!  Like hold a trial and legally kill him.  What happens when it's vice versa for Christians?  Well they are either prayed about, shunned (although I hope not as much), and they are reasoned with.  However, we're not Satanists who kill people who leave their belief system...and that's the kind of behavior I see from Muslims.

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #52 - Oct 21st, 2006 at 5:07pm
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http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2547.htm#001

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Late on the evening of October 10, 2006, Iraqi resistance groups lobbed mortar and rocket rounds into the immense ‘Forward Base Falcon,’ the largest American military base in Iraq, located 13 km south of the Green Zone in Baghdad. In addition to accurate mortar fire, Grad and Katyusha rockets were also used.

Falcon base was designed to house a large contingent of American troops, mostly drawn from the 4th Infantry Division, stationed at Fr. Bliss, Texas. At the time of the attack, there were approximately 3000 men inside the camp, which also was filled with ammunition supplies, fuel, tanks and vehicles.

When the flames had been brought under control on the morning of the 11th  of October, primarily because the entire camp had been gutted, nine large American military transports with prominent Red Cross markings were observed by members of the foreign media taking off, laded with the dead and the wounded.



Over 300 American troops, including U.S. Army and Marines, CIA agents and U.S. translators were casualties and there also were 165 seriously injured requiring major medical attention and 39 suffering lesser injuries  122 members of the Iraqi armed forces were killed and 90 seriously injured members of same, were also evacuated to the U.S. military hospital at al-Habbaniyah located some 70km west of Baghdad.

Satellite pictures and aerial photographs from neutral sources showed that Camp Falcon suffered major structural damage and almost all the U.S. military’s supply of small arms ammunition, artillery and rocket rounds, tons of fuel, six Apache helicopters, an uncounted but large number of soft-skinned vehicles such as Humvees and supply trucks were damaged or totally destroyed. Foreign press observers noted “an endless parade” of military vehicle recovery units dragging burnt-out heavy tanks and armored personnel carriers to another base outside Baghdad.

Many of the walls and towers of the camp were damaged or leveled as were many of  the barracks, maintenance depots, and there was considerable damage to the huge mess halls that could hold 3000 soldiers, the huge recreation center with its basketball courts and indoor swimming pools and all the administration buildings





If this is accurate, and who even knows, this is terrible and the fact it is not reported scares me. I'm looking for more info on this.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #53 - Oct 23rd, 2006 at 8:40am
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The only people reporting it are questionable indy media outlets.  I'd like to see some pictures.

-b0b
(...wonders if Google Earth would be updated?)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #54 - Oct 23rd, 2006 at 9:54am
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If only Google earth was all hi res and kept up to date, we could check on alot of things...

someday maybe
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #55 - Oct 25th, 2006 at 3:18pm
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Oct 25, 2006 — BERLIN (Reuters) - Two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast, the Defense Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday without giving further details.

Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier on Wednesday quoted a junior German defense minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots.

The jets also released infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying.

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and radical Lebanese-based Islamic group Hezbollah.



UNFIL has recently threatened to shoot down IDF jets over Lebanon. The IDF says it will continue to do recon until UNFIL stops the Syrian/Iranian arms smuggling that the IDF is observing ($5 says UNFIL wants the recon to stop so they can avoid criticism of not stopping the smuggling).


I'll bet a day's pay that this was the first step in that. The IDF was probably doing a recon over Hezbollah controlled areas. The German ship illuminates them with a radar, maybe even fire control, to let the IDF know that the vaunted UN doesn't approve. The IDF jets make a low pass at the German ship to let the UN know that they don't appreciate the UN's utter suckage. I also bet that the IDF just made a high speed pass and fired nothing. "Two shots" from "two jets" that carry a vulcan cannon sounds like "sonic boom from two jets" to me.

-b0b
(...could be wrong, of course.)
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #56 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 10:16pm
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Peretz: Israel didn't fire at German ship

Defense Minister Amir Peretz denies report that two IAF jets fired shots towards German vessel off shores of Lebanon. Peretz speaks with his German counterpart, guarantees him Israel will not attack country's ships

Efrat Weiss
Latest Update:      10.25.06, 20:05

Defense Minister Amir Peretz stated Wednesday that that reports that IAF jets had fired shots at a German ship were completely untrue. According to a report, which was initially confirmed by the Defense Ministry in Berlin, two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast.

Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a junior German Defense Ministry official as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots.

The official did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added.

However, shortly after the report was published Peretz spoke with the German defense secretary, Franz Josef Jung, and stressed before him that Israel was not involved in any shooting towards a German vessel, and that there was no intention to carry out such attacks in the future.

Peretz also emphasized the need to enhance cooperation directly vis-à-vis UNIFIL. The two ministers agreed to meet again next week.

The IDF has also stated that contrary to reports, the IAF did not strike any German ship.

Military sources explained that the report was released by the news agencies after Israeli warplanes identified a German ship and a German helicopter off the shores of Rosh Hanikra, and were sent in their direction. The jets were ordered to return shortly after, and while still in Israeli airspace. No shooting towards the vessel had occurred.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and radical Lebanese-based Islamic group Hizbullah.


Now is this the true story or is the original?

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #57 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 9:52pm
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So much for the German Chancellor saying that she didnt want German soldiers in a position that may have Israeli soldiers fighting German soldiers.
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #58 - Nov 1st, 2006 at 11:37am
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E974E7AF-BC99-4543-93FB-9A2DB5EBF417.htm

Quote:
Safavi also told state TV that the Iranian exercises would be used to test fire ballistic missiles.

"Missiles Shahab-2 and Shahab-3 with cluster warheads and a range of over 1,000km will be shot as well as hundreds of rockets and other missiles such as Fateh and Zolfaghar," he said


There is a couple carrier battlegroups in the Persian Gulf right now, near the Straight of Hormuz. It would be interesting if a "stray Iranian missile" were to hit one of our ships, sending us into war, just before the election!
  

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Re: Middle East Conflict
Reply #59 - Nov 4th, 2006 at 8:45am
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Six Arab states join rush to go nuclear
Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, UAE and Saudi Arabia seek atom technology
By Richard Beeston, Diplomatic Editor


THE SPECTRE of a nuclear race in the Middle East was raised yesterday when six Arab states announced that they were embarking on programmes to master atomic technology.
The move, which follows the failure by the West to curb Iran’s controversial nuclear programme, could see a rapid spread of nuclear reactors in one of the world’s most unstable regions, stretching from the Gulf to the Levant and into North Africa.



The countries involved were named by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as Algeria, Egypt, Morocco and Saudi Arabia. Tunisia and the UAE have also shown interest.

All want to build civilian nuclear energy programmes, as they are permitted to under international law. But the sudden rush to nuclear power has raised suspicions that the real intention is to acquire nuclear technology which could be used for the first Arab atomic bomb.

“Some Middle East states, including Egypt, Morocco, Algeria and Saudi Arabia, have shown initial interest [in using] nuclear power primarily for desalination purposes,” Tomihiro Taniguch, the deputy director-general of the IAEA, told the business weekly Middle East Economic Digest. He said that they had held preliminary discussions with the governments and that the IAEA’s technical advisory programme would be offered to them to help with studies into creating power plants.

Mark Fitzpatrick, an expert on nuclear proliferation at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said that it was clear that the sudden drive for nuclear expertise was to provide the Arabs with a “security hedge”.

“If Iran was not on the path to a nuclear weapons capability you would probably not see this sudden rush [in the Arab world],” he said.

The announcement by the six nations is a stunning reversal of policy in the Arab world, which had until recently been pressing for a nuclear free Middle East, where only Israel has nuclear weapons.

Egypt and other North African states can argue with some justification that they need cheap, safe energy for their expanding economies and growing populations at a time of high oil prices.

The case will be much harder for Saudi Arabia, which sits on the world’s largest oil reserves. Earlier this year Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Foreign Minister, told The Times that his country opposed the spread of nuclear power and weapons in the Arab world.

Since then, however, the Iranians have accelerated their nuclear power and enrichment programmes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2436948,00.html



I predict a lot of SPF 5,000,000 sunblock is going to be needed in that region in the not too distant future…



-b0b
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