X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
1) The first being is that the movie was marketed by the movie, the director, and writer as the beginning of the great friendship of Spock and Kirk in the Academy. It did not do this. Oh sure, they meet there and they interact in some bulls**t fashion. But there isn't anything that shows me they are friends in the movie at all.
Keep in mind this is a two hour action-oriented movie, not a multi-season dramatic TV show. I personally wasn't interested in watching a soap opera, so I'm glad the story moved at a brisk pace. You simply aren't going to stuff that much character development into an action movie. Besides, this is a well-known and well-loved property, so it is hard to blame the writers for not wasting an hour going into great depths on the interaction between Spock and Kirk.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
2) I can understand wanting to write with your own Star Trek universe and not have to be beholden to the original series but that means you can't steal from the universe you are destroying. You have to use a character from the original universe, you also steal Spock from there, and you steal information that invalidates a major character (covered later).
I disagree. The whole purpose of writing an alternate storyline is to allow you to borrow the elements you want from the original storyline (e.g. the universe, the characters, etc) while taking the plot in a new direction that isn't wholly compatible with the original storyline. This is quite common in Japanese dramatic media, perhaps less so in American media.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
3) Kirk is played for laughs. You see everyone talk about his like he's this great leader and amazing guy. Were we see this is a cutaway with the text that reads something like "7 years later" and we see Kirk promoted to a level that you'd never be able to attain with the way he acts. He's a joke of what people have of Kirk (womanizer, brash, smarmy) and this is seen in the stupid scene where his face and hands react to what Bones is doing. You see his trying to take over a star ship. You see it in every scene he is in.
I'll agree with this to a point. The idea that Kirk would be given command of the brand-spankin'-new flagship of the fleet following his activities in the Academy borders on absurd. That said, I again stress the limitations of a two-hour action movie. Honestly, I thought Kirk's character was very well written and I thoroughly enjoyed his antics. I don't think a super-serious Kirk would have worked in this movie's paradigm
at all.
Personally, if this were my movie, I would have rewritten the end of the Academy bit altogether. I think the writers might have missed the entire point of Kirk beating the Kobayashi Maru. Instead of a court martial, I think I would have had Kirk dressed down by an instructor, then immediately applauded by the same instructor for thinking outside the box. If you recall, in Wrath of Kahn, Kirk mentioned he received a commendation for "original thinking" for hacking the Kobayashi Maru.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
However, in the original series, Kirk was a dynamic leader who believed in the order of command and the ways of Starfleet. He could be brash and not obey commands at times but those are very few and far between. He demanded respect for himself and the chain of command because he gave it. In the movie, he just does whatever he wants and people seem to just say "That's our Kirk. Ha ha ha." NO! He would get kicked out the Academy for the way he acts.
Somehow, I think you and I watched a totally different original series. Kirk
was a brash womanizer and he repeatedly jeopardized himself, his ship, his crew and the Prime Directive for the sake of an interesting episode. This isn't TNG we're talking about here.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
3) All the other crew members fail to be as good as the original cast. Spock no longer chooses between his human and Vulcan side but instead cries over and over again. He is no longer a counteract to Bones (who was his opposite in my opinion - not Kirk). U'hurah is regulated to Spock's sex object. Heck, they even had to dumb her lines down because the actress can't remember and speak them. Chekov is made into some prodigy and takes over parts of the ship that has crew specifically trained to run the machines. Sulu is regulated to carrying a sword because of a throw back to one episode in the original series. And Scotty...he's a screw up on an ice planet who's also thrown in for laughs. Only Bones is remotely likable in this film - he retains the most of the original series. And let's not forget the hero of the movie - Christopher Pike. He's the one that really saves the day. But he's also an idiot because after all the things Kirk has done, he puts Kirk in charge of a federation starship. Why not Spock? Because F SPOCK, that's why! Out of anyone Spock should have been put in charge and Kirk should have been one to scrub the photon torpedo.
I'll give you some leeway with Uhura. I understand the need for a sex object to get box office sales, but Uhura was incredibly marginalized as little more than eye candy. This is a particularly egregious failure considering the ground broken by Nichelle Nichols in the original series.
I must totally disagree with your take on Spock, though. The entire movie dealt with his struggle between his human and Vulcan lineage. I felt the movie was very much a "coming of age" for Spock and I think it added a much-needed dose of character development to the film. I fully expect to see a much more Spock-like Spock in the next movie. Personally, I thought the admission of Sarek about his love for Amanda Grayson and the tragedy of her loss was particularly moving. Hell, I thought it was one of the finest moments in the entire film!
I think Scotty and Bones were brilliantly cast. I never would've thought of putting Simon Pegg in Scotty's role, but it was a fantastic decision. I think his personality fits the role perfectly. As you said, Bones was a perfect copy of his TOS counterpart, and that one really fit well into the new dynamic.
I enjoyed Chekov's lines and I think the part was cast well, but admittedly he was a bit of a "fixture" character that seemed to exist solely because he had to.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
4) Let's deal with Scotty since I brought him up. Scotty is the most useless character in the whole movie. And I hate saying that. Simon Pegg was a great choice for the role. So what's the big deal with this? Well he's completely devalued by Old Spock. Hey Scotty, you revolutionize transport technology with information that human, Vulcan, Klingon, etc. haven't figured out yet. And what does Old Spock do? Just gives it to Kirk. Thanks, Scotty. You were real helpful. Where everyone else gets to add to the plot or have at least a fight scene - you get to tell jokes. Because that's what this movie is - a joke. It has no love for the source material. It wants to make its own while lambasting the material it is stealing from.
Again, we're talking about a plot device in a two-hour action movie. It's not the choice I would have made, but then again, I've never written a movie that grossed $385 million at the box office. I think the writers made it clear this was only one of a large number of discoveries Scotty would make, and he would have eventually made it anyway, so I don't think Scotty was devalued much by the revelation of the transporter technology by Spock. Besides, there are plenty of way to play this into Scotty's favor moving forward, as he can now spend the time that was devoted to this invention to other discoveries.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
5) Vulcan is wiped out. Well there goes the Federation's biggest alley. It sets back all the things we learn about Vulcan culture and backstory (the Ka aka Vulcan soul transfer we learn about in Kahn and Enterprise). Spock looses his mother which ties the real Spock to his humanity in the original series. And 10,000 Vulcans live - somehow (emergency beam out - because all planets have that situation planned for).
This is easily the most controversial decision in the film, but I think my biggest problem with it is the nearly complete genocide of the Vulcan race. The Vulcans have had warp technology since at least 900 B.C., so I find it hard to believe that virtually their entire population was on Vulcan. In 3,000 years, you'd think they'd have spread out to quite a few other planets of their own, not to mention the substantial populations that would live on planets owned by other intelligent species. They are natural diplomats, after all. Hell, there should be a few million of them on starships alone!
Even the 10,000 that escaped Vulcan seems really low. Nero didn't destroy the planet instantaneously, so why wasn't there a larger population that was able to escape? Why wasn't Nero every confronted by some sort of military/police response from the planet? Again, these guys have been capable of interstellar travel for 3,000 years, so I fail to believe they would have much trouble dealing with one crufty old mining ship, even if it is full of special "black hole juice".
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
6) Spock. Bye bye everything that made Spock cool. In this universe, he doesn't choose his Vulcan side as his dominant side (as seen beautifully done in the Animated Series). We see him cry and act on instinct and throw hissy fits. We see him be petty and act stupidly. You do not get to see the cold Vulcan reasoning. This is seen in two main places. The trail of Kirk when he cheats and when he's struggling for control of the bridge from Kirk. Cry cry cry. That's all he does. Oh, let's make out with U'hurah because that's all she's good for - to support her man.
I covered this earlier, but again, I disagree completely with your take on Spock. It's obvious he's struggling with the dichotomy of his human and Vulcan sides. Personally, I'm glad the writers included this bit because it really fleshes out Spock as a character. Again, his discussion with Sarek toward the end of the movie is a brilliant piece of dialogue. It shows the audience that Spock isn't some kind of automaton that is incapable of emotion, and it really demonstrates the immensity of the statement that Vulcans can feel emotions at a much deeper level than their human counterparts.
So, yeah, when Spock is faced with an emotional dilemma in the future, I think we'll see him handle it seemingly effortlessly, but we'll be aware that deep inside he's facing turmoil far greater than his counterparts can even imagine.
That is good writing.
X wrote on Apr 7
th, 2013 at 9:02am:
7) Nero. What's Nero's plan? Well he wants to go back in time to save his little girl. Ok, that's pretty cool. What does he do instead? Opens a portal to a parallel universe where he attacks a federation starship randomly instead of heading to Romulus and try and help save his planet. But then he had to take out Old Spock. Ok, I get that - esp. with the "oh so subtle" name of Nero. But then he hangs around this universe for 20ish years and attacks Vulcan. Why doesn't this make any sense. BECAUSE THIS IS A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE! This isn't the Vulcan he's blaming for not helping his girl. This is Earth 2 or Earth Prime or Earth 223 is DC comics. This would be like me going to another universe and killing Hitler and expecting to help my universe with his death. Nope, different one, moron.
I see we've already invoked Godwin's law. ;p
So if you wound up in a different universe, you wouldn't kill Hitler? Sure, it's not going to change things in the universe you came from, but you can't change things there, so why not do what you can here?
I think Nero's basic premise was understandable. His little girl and his entire planet died and he believed the Vulcan's were responsible for it. Why wouldn't he want to exact vengeance upon them? If anything, I think the biggest complaint that could be levied against this part of the storyline is that it's ridiculously cliché. Seriously, this is a plot that is older than dirt.
-b0b
(...spent way too long on this.
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