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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Cry freedom! (Read 164155 times)
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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #30 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 2:13pm
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If I drank, I'd buy a case of beer to celebrate this...

Quote:
Senate rejects reauthorization of USA Patriot Act

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspatr1217,0,5251227.story?col...

WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Friday rejected attempts to reauthorize several provisions of the USA Patriot Act as infringing too much on Americans' privacy and liberty, dealing a huge defeat to the Bush administration and Republican leaders.

In a crucial vote early Friday, the bill's Senate supporters were not able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a threatened filibuster by Sens. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final vote was 52-47.

President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Republicans congressional leaders had lobbied fiercely to make most of the expiring Patriot Act provisions permanent, and add new safeguards and expiration dates to the two most controversial parts: roving wiretaps and secret warrants for books, records and other items from businesses, hospitals and organizations such as libraries.

Feingold, Craig and other critics said that wasn't enough, and have called for the law to be extended in its present form so they can continue to try and add more civil liberties safeguards. But Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert have said they won't accept a short-term extension of the law.

If a compromise is not reached, the 16 Patriot Act provisions expire on Dec. 31.

Frist changed his vote at the last moment after seeing the critics would win. He decided to vote with the prevailing side so he could call for a new vote at any time. He immediately objected to an offer of a short term extension from Democrats, saying the House won't approve it and the president won't sign it.

"We have more to fear from terrorism than we do from this Patriot Act," Frist warned.

If the Patriot Act provisions expire, Republicans say they will place the blame on Democrats in next year's midterm elections. "In the war on terror, we cannot afford to be without these vital tools for a single moment," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "The time for Democrats to stop standing in the way has come."

But the Patriot Act's critics got a boost from a New York Times report saying Bush authorized the National Security Agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of people inside the United States. Previously, the NSA typically limited its domestic surveillance to foreign embassies and missions and obtained court orders for such investigations.

"I don't want to hear again from the attorney general or anyone on this floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power we give it with restraint and care," said Feingold, the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act in 2001.

"It is time to have some checks and balances in this country," shouted Sen. Patrick Leahy, ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. "We are more American for doing that."

Most of the Patriot Act -- which expanded the government's surveillance and prosecutorial powers against suspected terrorists, their associates and financiers -- was made permanent when Congress overwhelmingly passed it after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington. Making the rest of it permanent was a priority for both the Bush administration and Republican leaders on Capitol Hill before Congress adjourns for the year.

The House on Wednesday passed a House-Senate compromise bill to renew the expiring portions of the Patriot Act that supporters say added significant safeguards to the law. Its Senate supporters say that compromise is the only thing that has a chance to pass Congress before 2006.

"This is a defining moment. There are no more compromises to be made, no more extensions of time. The bill is what it is," said Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz.

The bill's opponents say the original act was rushed into law, and Congress should take more time now to make sure the rights of innocent Americans are safeguarded before making the expiring provisions permanent.

"Those that would give up essential liberties in pursuit in a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security," said Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H. They suggested a short extension so negotiations could continue, but the Senate scrapped a Democratic-led effort to renew the USA Patriot Act for just three months before the vote began.


Here's more linkage...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5483650,00.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a6AM.xbk.1sI&refer=top_world...

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #31 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 2:55pm
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I'm hesitant to say anything before the rest of you speak.  I don't know your feelings about the Patriot Act, but it seems like a big brother law. 

Am I mistaken, or was this country based on indiviual rights.  We do have the right to privacy.  It takes away from our legal rights as citizens.  I think it's great that the law didn't get extended.  It's one of the few things that I'll agree on with Democrats.
  

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #32 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 4:07pm
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computerjuvenile wrote on Dec 16th, 2005 at 2:55pm:
I'm hesitant to say anything before the rest of you speak.


Be a man.  Step right on up...



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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #33 - Dec 16th, 2005 at 5:24pm
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Aye, this is a friendly bunch, and believe me, some of the things we talk about go a bit beyond this issue.   Wink
  

"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."&&&&John Adams&&
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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #34 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 3:54pm
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how about this...president supports US wire taps.  lol he should be thrown out, I dont know why any american would authorize this.  Its ludacris.

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #35 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 7:13pm
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Last I heard that was illegal. I'm sure hes using the pretense that the Patriot Act makes it legal, but the fact that this Act didnt make it through the senate shows how Americans feel about it.
  

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #36 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 9:03pm
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Quote:
Its ludacris.


Ludicrous.  The word you're looking for is ludicrous.

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #37 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 9:23pm
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Actually, young ones, the story refered to here took place a few days after 9/11.  That is without any court orders and WITHOUT the Patriot Act.  Now remember, according to the offical story we knew nothing of the attacks.  However within a 3 week span from 9/11 to the time Patriot Act was unviled.  We had the good ol boys in DC, by order of the President, come up with a 380 page paper that covered what should be done to combat the war on terror.  In a system, city, and country that takes months just to name a plan we have an almost 400 page, deeply integrated, deeply detailed guidelines set to be used.  Now I'm not one to flawnt conspiracy theories.......*eyes shifting*.....but that seems a little odd to me.

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #38 - Dec 21st, 2005 at 10:08am
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http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/20/D8EK9JP81.html

Just to put out some great quotes:

"Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday called for "strong and robust" presidential powers, saying executive authority was eroded during the Watergate and Vietnam eras."

Yes, probably because we viewed wiretapping in Watergate as really really bad.  Also, I believe "strong and robus" powers also led to locking Japanene AMERICANS up in "internment camps".  Heck why don't we just make Bush Dictator for Life.  That would just be the best all around.  Also, lets just give up our rights as well as our guns.  If you have nothing to hide then you don't need to worry about the police walking into your house any time they want to.  Hey, trails just get in the way of justice.  We all hate lawyers...so we don't need them anymore.  If you see someone getting snatched right out in the middle of the street and thrown into a van that quickly speeds away....that's just your govt despensing justice.  See....Dick....I can do it too.

" "I believe in a strong, robust executive authority and I think that the world we live in demands it," Cheney said."

Yeah, if you're a megalomanic bent on global domination to bring about a one world order/one world government.  Who, other than these yahoos, are demanding it?  I'm surely not, anyone on this board??  Does anyone know anyone in the world who's like, "Yeah, the President has our best intentions so why not give him unlimited rule."  Those people need to live in North Korea for ohhhh 6 months and then try saying that again.  If they live. 
Them: "Oh I don't like dog meat."
N. Korea: "EXECUTION!"
Them: "But I have the right to free speech!"
N. Korea: (Laughs while loading rifle)

"I would argue that the actions that we've taken there are totally appropriate and consistent with the constitutional authority of the president. ... You know, it's not an accident that we haven't been hit in four years,"

HA HA HA HA.  I have this rock...and it wards of tigers.  See no tigers since we've had this rock for 4 years.  Also it helps if I control the "tiger" population and if I deem it so...I can "release of tiger" when they don't buy the "rock".  Is anyone confused as to my whimsical analogy?  Also I want to know what action has been taken that has led to a stop in just ONE terrorist attack.  The closer I've seen was about a dozen CIVILIANS tackle a guy with C-4 in his shoes on an airplane and tied him up with belts.
Our government: Well we shot a guy for saying he was carrying a bomb in his backback.
Me:  Well witnesses have come forward to say that he never said such a thing and was just roaming the isle acting a little crazy.
Our government:  Well...err...umm....better safe than sorry.  PLUS he LOOKED like a terrorist.
Me: Oh and so did his loved one, I guess, who was trying to throw you off his trail by screaming "He's mentally ill!"
Our government:  Yes, now you get our point
Me: (Shakes my head and thinks about giving the Nazi salute just to see if I get the same response)

" "I think the vice president ought to reread the Constitution," said Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass."

Oh Hell...NOW I'M AGREEING WITH KENNEDY!!!???  This has GOT to be a low point in our country then.  I do have to say...he has a point.  When the Pres takes the oath of office all I hear is to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.  And I do believe that there's something called the Bill of Rights that basically say no wiretaps.  Unless if I missed a page in my historical document.

" "I believe the Congress _ as a coequal branch of government _ must immediately and expeditiously review the use of this practice," said Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine."

Wow, we have these people in office.  Maybe Sen. Snowe should read his Constitution again.  To his defense...he probably went to a public school...but he has money...hmmm....shoot I can't defend him then.  NE ways, my point here is.  CONGRESS IS NO "COEQUAL"!  The executive was made the weakest branch possible because our Fathers didn't want another King to rise up.  Hmm...smart guys.  Congress is probably the most powerful, although not without the proper checks and balances which helps us fight tyroney...when people actually stand up and fight against it.  Congress should be controlled by the people and thus it inevitabily had more power.  To Sen. Snowe...I would like to make the comment of..."Durrr!"

" Attorney General Alberto Gonzales cites the Authorization to Use Military Force law, which Congress passed and Bush signed a week after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The administration believes that law lets the government avoid provisions of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

Yeah and now everyone is ticked because Bush abused those powers and declared war on Iraq without any Congresstion declaration of war.  Yeah...good move there Congress.  Ya bunch of traitors.

" "I'm not a lawyer, but in my reading, it is pretty conclusive, very conclusive, that FISA prohibits all warrantless electronic surveillance of Americans in America," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D- Calif."

HOLY HELL!!! Now I'm agreeing with a Sen. from CA?!?!?  This must end people.  I don't like ranting as much as it seems.  Help me out here!  I need to stop agreeing with Kennedy and California!

"Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires _ a wiretap requires a court order," Bush said during a speech on the Patriot Act in Buffalo, N.Y. "Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so.""

Oh...then how come you did it after 9/11....with no court order?  How come the Patriot Act lets you do it without a court order?  How come Clinton and Carter also wiretapped in their days....without court orders?  PEOPLE WAKE UP AND THROW OFF YOUR CHAINS AND FIGHT FOR YOUR LIVES!

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #39 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 12:44am
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http://counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html

Oh what a tangle web we weave

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #40 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 10:16am
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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #41 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 11:29am
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X wrote on Dec 22nd, 2005 at 10:16am:


I call bull.

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #42 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 11:33am
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X wrote on Dec 22nd, 2005 at 12:44am:


That article is total crap.  I love the total lack of substantive information it contains...

Quote:
Counterpunch has learned that the FBI has them.


Oh, really?  Learned how?  From who?  Do you have pictures?  Audio/Data samples?

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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #43 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 1:10pm
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Re: Cry freedom!
Reply #44 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 2:08pm
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MediaMaster wrote on Dec 22nd, 2005 at 1:10pm:



I'm not saying Britain isn't going to try it, I'm just saying that it won't work as advertised.  There is no possible way they'll be able to convert that many images to text on the fly with any degree of accuracy and catalog all of it into an indexed, searchable database.  It's just not going to happen.

What are they hoping to prove with this system?  How hard would it be for a "terrorist" to either manufacture a license plate, or simply steal one from another car?

This is ridiculous.

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